The dreaded BSS

[ZimbiIV]

I need a BSS doing before the end of June. We are based in Brundall, does anybody have recommendations?

Preferably a member or even better somebody blind deaf and idiotic, not true! would like to know the boat is safe.

Any tips to check before the test much appreciated.

paul

[brandenjg]

Hi Matt, i had the same worry a few months ago. You can download a pre exam checklist which i took down th boat and went through section by section. As far as an examiner, i highly recommend Tim Waters. He came out and did my boat at a very reasonable price (and this is coming from a skinflint). I did all the work on the boat myself so was really worried about not passing but aslong as you follow the list it's no problem. Tim looked the boat over head to toe and asked if i'd done the work myself so he must of been able to tell the difference from a professional job

Years of experience, comes out to your boat, competitive pricing Tim Waters 07810458021

[ranworthbreeze]

Hello Paul,

We used Ian Jennings and we have arranged to use his services again in September when our BSS is due. He is bases at Brundall on Evening Tide, please PM me and I will let you have his phone number.

Regards

Alan

[Guest]

Or have a look at his website, which shows his charges as well.

http://www.ijmarinesurveys.co.uk/#/boat ... 4561506467

I've used four Broads based BSS surveyors now, and he was certainly the cheapest, by a long chalk with some.

A friendly chap and just as professional and knowledgeable.

£105 for a single inboard powered vessel, for me, Petrol too.....

[teadaemon]

You shouldn't dread a BSS examination, it's really fairly simple and straightforward.

There's a section on the BSS website explaining what you need to do to prepare for an examination here, and the current checks for private boats can be found here (large pdf file).

I've been able to offer BSS examinations on private boats since January this year (I took the course back in November, but as I was trained to the new checks I had to wait until they became valid to start doing examinations), and I know I'm one of the cheapest examiners in the area. If there's anything you want to know about the examination, or you'd like a quote, then feel free to get in touch.

Branden, from a BSS point of view, it doesn't matter who does the work, either the answer to all of the questions in the checks is yes and it passes, or the answer to one or more is no and it doesn't pass. I will admit, there are times when I have to remember whether I'm doing a survey or a BSS, as there are plenty of things that the BSS doesn't regard as important that I would as a surveyor. (Since all the BSS covers are the bare minimum requirements of the navigation authority, in this case the BA, in order for the boat to receive it's toll or licence.)

[Oddfellow]

In my experience (sorry to disagree, Dan), different people have different views on BSS conformity as there are sometimes different methods of achieving things.

We regularly have vessels faill a bss on silly little things that remain unchanged since the last time but don't now satisfy the current examiner's intrepretation.

[Jim]

Totally agree Andy. Ours has just failed on items that were deemed fine on the last inspection. It seems now the filler hoses and breather hoses also have to be compliant on a petrol boat as well as the fuel lines. The last test involved us having to change the fuel hoses from BMW manufactured flex wire armoured/crimped to ordinary hoses with jubileee clips with the correct numbering on them. Off the cuff, the examiner said that he had rendered our boat less safe that it was before....ridiculous. Not only that, when he returned to do the burner trials on our gas rings and hob, he'd left the grill turned on which nearly resulted in me blowing myself up!

[teadaemon]

Totally agree Andy. Ours has just failed on items that were deemed fine on the last inspection. It seems now the filler hoses and breather hoses also have to be compliant on a petrol boat as well as the fuel lines. The last test involved us having to change the fuel hoses from BMW manufactured flex wire armoured/crimped to ordinary hoses with jubileee clips with the correct numbering on them. Off the cuff, the examiner said that he had rendered our boat less safe that it was before....ridiculous. Not only that, when he returned to do the burner trials on our gas rings and hob, he'd left the grill turned on which nearly resulted in me blowing myself up!

Jim, I've just checked the 2005 checks (that your boat would have been examined to on the previous examination), and the requirements for markings on petrol filling and vent hoses are the same as the 2013 checks (which is what it has to comply with now). If it passed before (and there wasn't a declaration from the manufacturer stating compliance with ISO 7840 or equivalent, still an option with the current checks), then somebody has made a mistake. I can sympathise, as I've currently got an identical issue with the filling hose on a boat I examined recently. The owner and I are currently trying to talk to the manufacturer to see if they can provide a declaration of compliance.

The problem with unmarked armoured hose is that it's not possible to check the condition of the hose itself, as it's concealed by the armour.

As far as leaving a gas burner on, I have to say that everyone makes mistakes. I assume that the cooker was fitted before 2000? As if it were fitted after it would be required to have flame-failure devices on all of the burners to prevent precisely that problem.

[MBA Marine]

Mr Waters all the way, he will not fail you for the sake of it and he does not carry out repairs so has nothing to gain for a fail, also he give a free re-test so if it fails it costs him more to come back to you.

As for things failing that have past previously, this happens a lot and somethings are nit picky, however from what I have seen, many boats in the early BSS days must have just been passed without even been looked at as things that have been missed/ignored are shocking. the most common is the fuel tank vent not exiting or looping up to at least the height of the filler, im assuming this is because they are often hard to reach and examiners whom worked for the yard repaired just could not be bothered!

Also owners do tend to fiddle with there boats and often change things to a standard that is not up to BSS.

[littlesprite]

I can understand your dread at needing a BSS, even more the upset/anger if it fails, but remember the examiner is only looking to keep you safe and healthy. Read the incidents of people who have come to harm in recent years compared to those pre BSS.

He (the examiner) doesn't want to fail you, just to see you live and well in another 4 years.

[Guest]

....many boats in the early BSS days must have just been passed without even been looked at as things that have been missed/ignored are shocking. the most common is the fuel tank vent not exiting or looping up to at least the height of the filler, im assuming this is because they are often hard to reach.

Also owners do tend to fiddle with there boats and often change things to a standard that is not up to BSS.

Yes, dead right there, exactly how it was on my boat when I bought it, from a well known Broker, with a valid BSS, (and it's a petrol tank too).

It had also been "maintained" exclusively by professional yards, going by the extensive provenance, and at no little cost.

The BSS renewal was due about 6 months after I bought it, so I checked it over thoroughly straight away.

Amongst the sad catalogue of faults, the filler hose and vent were unmarked and secured by single zinc plated ( not stainless) hose clips. No loop in the breather either, even though it exited the hull level with the filler.

Fortunately I am an owner that "does tend to fiddle with my boat" and often change things to a standard "that is up to BSS" !!

Like this new ISO marked hose and doubled stainless steel hose clips, with a nice loop at the top of the vent pipe....

[MBA Marine]

Yes, dead right there, exactly how it was on my boat when I bought it, from a well known Broker, with a valid BSS, (and it's a petrol tank too).

It had also been "maintained" exclusively by professional yards, going by the extensive provenance, and at no little cost.

The BSS renewal was due about 6 months after I bought it, so I checked it over thoroughly straight away.

Amongst the sad catalogue of faults, the filler hose and vent were unmarked and secured by single zinc plated ( not stainless) hose clips. No loop in the breather either, even though it exited the hull level with the filler.

Fortunately I am an owner that "does tend to fiddle with my boat" and often change things to a standard "that is up to BSS" !!

Like this new ISO marked hose and doubled stainless steel hose clips, with a nice loop at the top of the vent pipe....

glad to hear it, is that even a bonding wire going up to the deck filler i can see there?

[teadaemon]

glad to hear it, is that even a bonding wire going up to the deck filler i can see there?

It should be, as if it's a petrol system a lack of earth bonding would be a failure point (checks 2.7.1 and 2.7.2).

Incidentally, I don't work for a yard or offer repairs myself, and I do free retests (at least for boats on the Broads). As far as whether a boat passes or fails, I've found that at least with the 2013 checks they're now written in a very clear and as far as possible unambiguous fashion. If I fail a boat on any point it'll be because I can show clearly that it does not comply with the check as they're written, and I'll be able to say what needs to change in order for it to be a pass.

If anyone does genuinely believe that an examiner has made a mistake or otherwise failed their boat when it should have passed, there is a right of appeal - if anyone wants to take this up I'd suggest they contact the BSS office ASAP after the examination in question.

[Guest]

, is that even a bonding wire going up to the deck filler i can see there?

Sharp eyesight there.

Yes indeed, and something else that was missing (from new, presumably.... !)

[GoneRoaming]

Tim Waters did our BSS and I can highly recommend him, at £110 for the test and no charge for the retest.

[Oddfellow]

Having originally been berthed on EA waterways, I was exposed to the BSS very early on - 1997 if I recall correctly and with a petrol boat that needed a lot of work to conform.

Now, running a hire fleet of a number of boats, I am very concious of the items that can be missed in BSS examinations. Like has been said, it's always been a requirement that fuel lines conform to the propperly acredited piping and I've heard many people who have had to remove undamaged, braided hoses been told that the original was very likely much safer than the replacement.

We have never had a boat pass a second BSS test four years after the last one. There's always something new noticed that wasn't seen before. It's always simple like a fuel line, battery or gas bottle strap or something.

[seaboater]

I too paid a lot of money to make my boat's fuel lines compliant and no safer, possibly less so in fact. Prior to bringing it to the Broads it spent many years in sea based marinas mixing with very expensive boats and being capable of channel crossings. It was built and maintained to the standards of the company which provides pilot, coastguard and police boats. The BSS is a good idea which is implemented far too rigidly. My turn again for BSS in 2014.......I expect there will be something wrong!

[Gordon]

It is easy to understand why something will pass one year and fail four years later i believe it would be possible for it to fail 4 minutes later

Unfortunately however well the regulations are written it still comes down to the interpretation of the inspector some are more thorough than others and some are downright pedantic. I guess this is the case in all walks of life

[teadaemon]

One of the main points reinforced to us when I did the BSS examiner training course was consistency - in theory it should make no difference which examiner does a BSS examination, we should all be using the same checks and should therefore reach the same conclusion as to whether a particular boat passes or fails. Indeed, it's not uncommon for me as a surveyor to find systems that will pass the BSS, but that I would be making recommendations to change if I were doing a survey on the boat in question.

Boats that have previously been used at sea, unless they've been coded under one of the MCA's codes for small commercial vessels, often need work to bring them up to the standards of the BSS (particularly when it comes to gas systems, but other areas can be a problem). Bear in mind that until 1998 there were no legally-binding standards for the manufacture of private leisure vessels in the UK. The reputation of the builder is completely irrelevant from a BSS point of view, as it's not a reliable way to tell that a particular boat has been built to a sufficient standard in all relevant areas.

[Poppy]

Four years ago I was advised that my (diesel) fuel hoses on my VP single cylinder engine 'were not compliant' because, although perfectly serviceable and the original equipment thy lacked ISO numbers. Interestingly replacement VP parts ALSO lacked the numbers so essential for the safety of me and others......

[teadaemon]

Four years ago I was advised that my (diesel) fuel hoses on my VP single cylinder engine 'were not compliant' because, although perfectly serviceable and the original equipment thy lacked ISO numbers. Interestingly replacement VP parts ALSO lacked the numbers so essential for the safety of me and others......

So, if they weren't marked with the required standard, how did you know that they actually met said standard (which IIRC requires them to resist a temperature of 600 degrees C for at least 2 minutes)?

[Poppy]

So, if they weren't marked with the required standard, how did you know that they actually met said standard (which IIRC requires them to resist a temperature of 600 degrees C for at least 2 minutes)?

They were the original factory parts

If they were good enough for the designers at Volvo Penta, that's plenty good enough for me. The same goes for VP replacements. Clearly a bloke in a suit in an office in Watford knows more about these engines than the manufacturer ....

[teadaemon]

They were the original factory parts

If they were good enough for the designers at Volvo Penta, that's plenty good enough for me. The same goes for VP replacements. Clearly a bloke in a suit in an office in Watford knows more about these engines than the manufacturer ....

Considering that virtually all modern boat engines (apart from Yanmar) are marinised versions of engines designed for either automotive or industrial purposes, there's absolutely no guarantee that an engine designer had any inkling whatsoever that their design may end up installed in a boat, and that it would therefore need to comply with the various standards relating to such installations (such as ISO 7840). Whilst I agree, in most cases where fuel hoses are not marked, it is possible to confirm with the manufacturer that they do in fact comply, that is not true for all engines, and therefore in the absence of markings on the hoses or a declaration from the manufacturer, I as an examiner cannot assume compliance.

[Poppy]

Sorry Teadamon, but I can't conceive that any quality engine manufacturer will not ensure that its product and ancillaries are entirely fit for purpose. Whilst I accept that you or any examiner must work to the specifications given, there are some incredibly stupid rules coming out of The BSS . For example, I feel happier with 12v electrics than I would with 240v 'shorepower' - but that is STILL only subject to 'advisories' - I think we both know why, don't we? And WHY is diesel and petrol treated the same? They certainly aren't the same risk....

They really should understand that at head office (now Milton Keynes I understand) shouldn't they? If they don't, I despair!

[Guest]

Considering that virtually all modern boat engines (apart from Yanmar) are marinised versions of engines designed for either automotive or industrial purposes, there's absolutely no guarantee that an engine designer had any inkling whatsoever that their design may end up installed in a boat, and that it would therefore need to comply with the various standards relating to such installations (such as ISO 7840).

I agree that there are many marinised car engines in boats, but the brand name "Volvo Penta" is exclusively marine engines, at least as much as Yanmar is.

The block, heads and some ancillaries may have originally been designed for automotive use, like my V6 petrol Volvo Penta, being based on the american General Motors 4.3 litre car and truck engine, but the Volvo Penta "package" is always fitted in boats, and with some considerable upgrading of parts for marine use.

I'd agree with Poppy, that Volvo Penta original equipment like fuel hoses must be at least as well made and fit for purpose as an BSS approved third party aftermarket replacements.