Visitor tolls - a rip off?

[kadensa]

I have just paid the BA  £44.20 for the privilege of bringing my 14 ft sailing dinghy + 2.3hp outboard to the Broads for 2 weeks.  That equates to annual charge of  an eye-watering £1149.20!  The actual annual toll charge for the boat would be £92.70 - i.e. just over twice what I paid.

 

I find it hard to see what  justification there can be for the inflated charges applied to 'visitors' over 'resident' boats.

[650xs]

£22.00 per week .................or so not bad ................................

 

 

yer get it back / knock off if yer go for full toll .........................

 

 

just my thorgth.......................................

 

 

i do see whar yer come from but 

 

 

£22.00 per week .......................

 

 

 

how much to visit some orf the ole natinal trust places ,lakes walks passes etc ......!!!!???????

[Guest]

I must say I don't think the short-visit tolls are unreasonable. We brought a 16' racing dinghy with us a few years ago and thought the toll was just one of those unavoidable but minor expenses. I don't remember how much it was but probably somewhat less than you paid as we relied on sail power alone!

[kadensa]

yer get it back / knock off if yer go for full toll .........................

 

 

how much to visit some orf the ole natinal trust places ,lakes walks passes etc ......!!!!???????

There's no point in my paying the annual toll when I'm only visiting for two weeks. The National Trust is  dfferent  - if I am a member, I can visit any property free of charge for a year.

 

As for the 'admin'  - a couple of pieces of printed sticky- back paper, an envelope,  a 37p stamp and the time it takes for someone to read an Email, write a few figures, put the paper in the envelope and get it in the post?  

 

OK, if I were using the dinghy solely, I probably wouldn't mind paying, say, £20- £30, but I have already contributed to the BA coffers indirectly by hiring a cruiser.

[kadensa]

OK,  I've now taken a couple of minutes to do the maths and the toll for a 14ft dinghy  works out at £42.26 plus 97p per week. 

 

Now, whether or not that is value for money is a matter of opinion, however, the impression one gets as a visitor is that you are paying 'above the odds'.

[BroadScot]

How much are yards charging now to hire a basic rowing dinghy for a week?

 

Just as a comparison.

 

Iain

[Gracie]

Iain,we hired a dinghy last year and paid £40, worth every penny

 

Grace

[JennyMorgan]

If visitor tolls were lower then perhaps resident boat owners might then be tempted to buy their licences by the week rather than by the season. I do have some sympathy with the Broads Authority on this one, whatever they do it'll be a wrong for someone. However, I do think that the toll for a small, outboard powered boat is hugely unfair compared with the toll of a large motor cruiser.

Thought for the day, approaching half your toll goes towards Broads Authority overheads rather than the navigation. Now, I think that that really is a rip off.

[650xs]

please enjoy yer hols on the water ..................................................

 

pay yer price whaether it be hi or low 

 

yer can stay or gooo

 

 

yuo can waffle for days on this ..................................and no dowbt will........................

 

 

as yer say in comparsion and 95p a day not bad ...........................................

 

 

yer can have my tolls bill and tolls  if yer like ......................and see what the hire flleet boys and girls pay 

 

 

enjoy and good commments too ....................................

[Viking23]

When is a boat not a boat.. ie when it's a toy.

So what about these inflatable kayaks, 2 man pvc inflatable boats you can buy for a few pounds at Lidl, Aldi or seaside shops.

Or inflatale crocodiles etc.

What is the requirement to pay a toll on these?

I have see dozens on the water, some towed behind hire boats, some towed with people in them, a lot under the influence too.

Salhouse broad is a great place to launch one for the kids, these are used without paying a toll, so what do the Broads Authority do about it?

Blatent non payment of tolls.

Do they get fined, or told to pay the minimum toll?

So what about an inner tube, is that some form of boat, what about a smaller version, some would call these life belts lol...

Where is the line drawn?

Richard

[Guest]

...... I do think that the toll for a small, outboard powered boat is hugely unfair compared with the toll of a large motor cruiser.......

 

Too right Peter.

 

The moment you put even a tiny outboard on a dinghy or inflatable, the toll triples, to close on a hundred pounds.

 

The annual toll equates to about a quarter of their resale value, whereas the toll for a large motor cruiser is about one-fiftieth of it's resale value at the most.

 

"Ability to pay" doesn't seem to enter the equation at all.

[kadensa]

 However, I do think that the toll for a small, outboard powered boat is hugely unfair compared with the toll of a large motor cruiser.

 

Entirely agree, JM.  The only reason we're bringing the outboard is so we'll be guaranteed to get to Horsey/Hickling and back.  Our dinghy is a b***h to row,  and since the wind/weather can't be relied on,  the motor is essential.

 

Your second point, about how much goes towards overheads, is something that I think is implicit in the toll structure, and is why (in my opinion) the visitor tolls are so high. 

 

Anyway, all that matters to me right now is that in a week or so I'll be sailing again.

[ExMemberBobdog]

When is a boat not a boat.. ie when it's a toy.

So what about these inflatable kayaks, 2 man pvc inflatable boats you can buy for a few pounds at Lidl, Aldi or seaside shops.

Or inflatale crocodiles etc.

What is the requirement to pay a toll on these?

I have see dozens on the water, some towed behind hire boats, some towed with people in them, a lot under the influence too.

Salhouse broad is a great place to launch one for the kids, these are used without paying a toll, so what do the Broads Authority do about it?

Blatent non payment of tolls.

Do they get fined, or told to pay the minimum toll?

So what about an inner tube, is that some form of boat, what about a smaller version, some would call these life belts lol...

Where is the line drawn?

Richard

Inflatable kayaks (or any other canoes/kayaks) including the 'toy' ones are liable for a toll - whether an annual payment or 'short visit'.  However, if the owner/paddler is a member of the British Canoe Union (BCU) he/she doesn't have to pay a toll direct to the BA.  This is because the BCU negotiate a deal with the BA where they pay a lump sum each year on behalf of their members.  This benefits the BA because they are guaranteed one large sum, rather than have to chase x thousand smaller sums (with the associated admin costs).  Rangers do stop inflatable and other canoe/kayaks which are not displaying a toll plaque/short visit toll and demand a payment if the paddler cannot produce a BCU licence.

[650xs]

ohh dear... .

[Samuel]

Thought for the day, approaching half your toll goes towards Broads Authority overheads rather than the navigation. Now, I think that that really is a rip off.

 

JM - this is interesting, if not alarming. Where can I find the info that shows how toll revenue relates to overhead and other expenditure?

 

I agree with other posters that short stay tolls appear excessive especially for smaller craft like this.

[JennyMorgan]

Samuel, the following is lifted off the Norfolk & Suffolk Boating Association website:

Government Response to Consultation on Running of the Broads

Defra Consultation on the Governance Arrangements for the National Parks and the Broads

The outcome of the consultation was published in September. The Government does not propose any change in the size of the Broads Authority. This accords with NSBA’s representations to Defra.

Unfortunately, the Government has decided not to change the composition of the Authority, despite the NSBA’s submission that there should be some seats on the Authority reserved for representatives of tollpayers. At present there is no guarantee that a single tollpayer is a member of the Broads Authority. This seems indefensible when tollpayers contribute so much to the Authority’s budget. By 2014/15 tollpayers will provide 48% of the Authority’s income, the proportion of toll income being used to fund overhead costs rising from 21.5% to 43% in that time. NSBA will continue to press for tollpayer representation.

The Government has agreed with the Broads Authority’s wish to carry out a formal review of the Authority’s consultative structure, including the Navigation Committee. The NSBA regards the role of that Committee as of fundamental importance and would not wish to see it diluted in any way. NSBA will be active in seeking to ensure that this does not happen.

The Broads Authority does publish a breakdown of their income & expenditure, if you can find them! Try looking here:

http://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/broads-authority/spending/monthly-spending

[Paladin]

or here http://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0006/427245/report-Navigation-Income-and-Expenditure-0104-310813-Actual-and-2013-14-Forecast-Outturnpdf.pdf