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SPEEDTRIPLE

MARINISING CAR ENGINES

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Hi all,

 

i was looking at some cars for sale the other day, some of which were deisel powered, and wondered if modern day car deisel engines can be marinised like the engines of old?. I run a Peugeot 407 138 deisel, and while looking for a later model, saw several wth deisel engines (most 407 are deisels), which were going for well under £1,000. So that got me thinking, would it be viable to buy one, break it, selling all the bodywork etc on e bay or gumtree, and selling the engine ready for marinising, or even marinise it first, then sell it?.

 

Also, seeing as most car deisels are turbo charged, how would a turbo engine run if you just ran it, but without the turbo?. I know it won`t give anywhere near as much power, but would it even run properly, due to it possibly being designed to be run as a turbo engine.

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why would you want to remove the turbo?

 

Most modern diesel engines would require a stand alone engine management system,

 

I recently managed to get a Merc engine running in a Jaguar removing one of the ECUs, I don't know how I managed to do it but it may have been the £3k I was quoted for a new  system, it is not what I do and caused a lot of head scratching and late nights last christmas...! 

the bit I didn't do but now know how(I think) is the chipped ignition switch...

 

remember you will need to over ride the brake/drive/ gearbox sensors etc etc...

 

you will then need a bell housing/  adapter plate to accommodate a gearbox, 

 

the exhaust can be straight through like a narrow boat ,

 

you will need either a heat exchanger or a keel cooler..

 

anything can be done...

 

I am in the middle of putting a DAF 150 engine and axles onto a 1960 Bedford coach, things don't go to plan but you can get over most things with a bit of thought/ enthusiasm/ grief!

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If anyone's considering marinising car engines and/or adapting them to outdrive shields, then the best source of information on the web is Lancing Marine.

 

They've been selling kits and adapter parts for many years now and they publish very good free guides and price books, which can also be downloaded.

 

http://www.lancingmarine.com/

 

For anyone familiar with tinkering with car engines, it can be a very economic proposition, especially for something like a turbo diesel conversion, that normally costs an arm and a leg for a professional installation.

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The Ford 1.8d engine from 1990s Fiesta cars (is it the XLD?) is a simple marinisation option. The engines can be bought cheaply and the kit is available from Lancing Marine. The marinisation kit will cost you many times the value of the engine though. But there should be a regilar parts supply for many years to come.

 

Removing a turbo from many modern engines is likely to confuse the ecu and limit the engine. Don't forget, the Turbo is mostly worried with accelleration, so removing may not be necessary anyway.

 

Many things are possible, but few are simple these days with modern engines. Fudging something to get it working is more than likely possible, but remember that it needs to be easily serviceable, so if you are going to do some tinkering like this, remember to make things as accessible as possible.

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For most marinising conversions, a normally aspirated diesel engine will give ample power for the average Broads sized cruiser, giving around 50bhp from around 1.5 litres.

 

As Andy said, the Ford XLD is a favourite conversion option, a sort of "modern day" version of the ubiquitous BMC 1500. Plentiful in breakers yards and simple to work on.

 

I considered one myself, with a bellhousing kit, if I ever converted my Volvo V6 petrol to diesel, as many have been similarly converted.

 

If anyone wanted to preserve the ability to plane such a boat though, much more power would be needed, and only a turbo diesel could deliver this within the weight and space constraints of the existing engine bay.

 

In the end I stayed with my 200hp petrol, because it is a new replacement engine, and runs like a watch, almost inaudible at Broads speeds, yet I can still do 30 knots past the pierheads.

 

The loss of red diesel put the lid on the decision, when 6mph cruising costs became the same for petrol.

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If you can find a diesel Morris Oxford/ Austin Cambridge it'd be a doddle!

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The 2.5DI 'Banana' engines are known for being pretty solid, and I've heard of them being used in boats too. They used to be pretty noisy though, as anyone who has driven a pre-2000 diesel Transit will remember. 

 

I don't know if marinising makes much difference to the sound, but I wouldn't be hopeful. 

You'd be fine Skipper...IF you wore Ear Protection! :naughty:

 

 

cheers Iain.

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For my two penny worth, I would avoid engines with cam belts rather than chains, the position many engines are squeezed into makes changing a cam belt an absolutely sh1t bag of a job. chains can get a bit rattly but you dont often heat of one snap.  

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Thanks for the replies folks.

 

I`m not going to do it, but thought it would be good to find out if it can still be done.

 

The reason for removing the turbo Clive is to remove another possible breakdown, but i remember hearing years ago that some, if not all, turbo engines usually run at lower compression than conventionally aspirated engines, so that`s why i asked if they would run ok?.

 

It`s worth knowing about these sort of projects, especially on this forum, as if anybody is in the process of building, or restoring a boat on a budget, it might make a viable alternative to either a new, or fully reconditioned unit, and with so many used deisel powered cars being easily and cheaply available, it could make sense.

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to clarify, there are no Ford / PSA joint development engines used in Transits. The joint development DLD engine was used in Ford Fiesta and Focus road cars as well as by their subsiduary brands such as Volvo and Mazda with these engines being built at Ford's Engine plant at Bridgend, or Chennai in India. Peugeot Citroen used the same engine in certain models of road cars with their engines built at PSA's diesel engine plant at Tremery.

 

The diesel engines in used in Ford Transits since 2000 is the ZSD "Puma", an all Ford designed unit built at Dagenham, In addition to the transit you'll find the same engine range used by Jaguar, Mazda, Land Rover, LTI as well as Vivarail in it's new range of commuter trains.

 

I am led to believe the Nissan / Renault K9K 1.5 dci engine is well suited to marinisation, but use the lower power, sub 90bhp versions with Euro V compliance which have Bosch fuel injection systems. Earlier Euro IV engines had Delphi systems which were prone to problems and the higher power versions tend to be very unreliable.

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it gets very confusing Jonzo. Puma is quite an old engine and will be replaced later this year by the panther. I think Puma is the last all Ford diesel still in use. If you try and track what vehicles use what you're likely to drive yourself mad. Mondeo started with DW12, the joint venture engine, then got the Pum, then about 2008 went back to DW12's except for the 2.2 which is still the Puma.

 

They stick a "duratorque" badge on but in reality that means nothing, stand any three engines side by side and they could each be totally different.

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