BroadAmbition

Two new members on the same page? Welcome Graham P and thanks for joining us. Proper chuffed we have a member of the NW&DC trust onboard, especially as you will be able to put many rumours and myths to bed Fenland Skies - Proper good name imho, welcome onboard too Griff

will this be adopted by the other extensions to Broadland rivers such as the Waveney and the Bure or are they different I wonder. Who knows? Extensions to the Waveney and the Bure are currently not undergoing restoration as far as I am aware as of yet? - But we can live in hope Griff

Other points which to me, have not been clarified include if the Canal Co own all the way to Wayford, then how can an individual own another bit and charge a toll - why is the toll not going to the Canal Co? Marshy - Sigh, the Canal Co don't own it ALL the way to Wayford, just some of it, as stated earlier there are currently FOUR owners of sections of the waterway. That's how an individual owns 'A Bit' and why would he give his voluntary toll collected to another owner of another section? From what Graham told me Luke is keen for the waterway to be maintained / improved when funds allow (Why am I repeating mysen here?) Whilst Griff you have cleared some things, legal issues now seem more blurred but I am not discussing my thoughts on an Open Forum but I am not entirely convinced! I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else for that matter. You can remain unconvinced or otherwise till your hearts content I'm just doing a bit of digging / research and in the process myself discovering some rumours and a few interesting facts, learning and reporting back for forumites to read / discuss as they see fit. You take it or not - Your choice. You are of course welcome to collect further information and enlighten me and the rest of us anytime you wish. Sources should of course be verified so they just ain't yet more rumours. I enjoy being educated / informed / enlightened especially with regards to Norfolk waterways I intend to contact Luke sometime in the near future but have to get my approach nice and friendly - That should be easy enough? Griff

Marshy - the answer to your questions is simple - I don't know! I can only guess as to why no progress below Honing Lock - Maybe it's a manpower thing, the volunteers concentrate on one section at a time? - Maybe its a money thing? maybe it's bank access to get to a fallen tree? Maybe the canal owner wants to tackle it himself once he has funds to do it? Maybe it's lack of a suitable workboat to get to the tree, maybe it's where do the put the thing after cutting it up? Maybe you could find out? The toll is as explained earlier to pay for clearance / maintenance as it is currently a private waterway I could of course ask Graham but it's a bank holiday and I have only just met him over the phone and don't want to be a thorn in his side from the off. SpeedTriple - this map may help Griff

Hmmm, photo's. I only have the four it seems and they aren't very good either, they were taken back in 2001 though, two a couple of them are on page one of this thread Griff

'Goodnight Irene' Originally Star Supreme 4 She was the fourth craft to come out of the mold taken from 'B.A's hull, she would have been constructed in 67/68. Tupperware hull with timber topsides. She has / did have a berth in Richo's wetshed. She is a lot of boat there Griff

Graham has a steel tug boat called 'John Henry' He used to do the pleasure boating on the rivers until he got caught up with the canal restoration and now as no time left for pleasure boating. A few years ago he took 'John Henry' right up to Honing Lock. He struggled to get past that tree obstruction (Which is even worse now) but being a steel work boat pushed through, ran aground once but got going again. His craft draws 3ft, is 22ft x 8ft. The airdraft at Tonnage bridge is 8ft 6" to the centre of the arch Today in dinghies and canoes you can still get up to Honing lock, the only obstruction being 'That' tree just north of Tonnage bridge. Whilst you are there you can observe the amount of water coming over what is left of the top gates Ebridge - Anyone is most welcome to launch their craft there and use the waterway Laurie Ashton 'Old Canal Company' is the owner of that section and again actively encourages folk to use the waterway, there is no charge or toll and no advance permission required - Just go there and use it. The big news is that the section between Swafield to Spa common is imminently due to be re watered any time now which will increase the navigable area. There is also a passenger boat available for trippers to make use of Tonnage Bridge. The previous farm / land owner was using the old bridge but with modern heavier machinery the bridge was in danger of collapsing, so he took it upon himself to rebuild the bridge that you now see today. When Luke bought the farm / land he inherited Tonnage bride and the canal with the farm. He does own that section of the canal but not sure who is the land owner immediately adjacent to the waterway A couple of chaps took a machine and cleared out a narrow section of waterway that is now almost totally derelict / filled in /dry. It got them into all sorts of trouble with the EA at the time, but what was done was done. What they did has enabled the canal water to flow beneath what appears to be now firm ground, constantly scouring / cleaning as it goes Motor craft using the waterway in the future will cause a problem with erosion. Wherries in thier day caused very little wash of course. The banks are earthen and in some areas the canal is higher than the land adjacent to it. Erosion has a danger of causing a breach in the banks. The plan is to dredge the canal and put the material back onto the banks to maintain bank strength and water integrity, this will be an ongoing operation that has been discussed and planned for ----------------------------------------- He did start giving me a lot more information about sections above Honing Lock but I had to stop him. Toooo much input for one session All of my previous posts was taken down from hurriedly written notes. I've done my best to be accurate. I have emailed Graham a link to this page so he can see where we are up to and what has been discussed. It would be even better if he would comment and answer any questions that we may have too Hope the above has been of help and thrown a bit of light on the subject. I'll dig out some photo's I took a while back, Griff

There are four present owners of the actual canal from Wayford through to Antingham. Yes they do own the actual canal between them. Bank side ownership is not an issue on navigation of the canal itself. There are two big obstructions to getting the waterway operational, one of which is one of the canal owners whom I'm not going to name. The other being funding of course The lower section is owned by Luke Pattinson. An act of parliament in 1812 gives him the right to ask for a toll to be used on maintenance. He is sympathetic to maintaining the waterway as a navigation but its expensive. He actively encourages canoes / dinghies to use the section of the waterway up to Honing lock. He charges a voluntary toll of just £4:00 and seeing as it's a couple of hours paddling there / back it works out at just £2 per Hr. I would suggest if you do use the waterway - Stick more than £4 in the box! All monies raised he uses on maintaining the waterway. There is an honesty box by the jetty at Tonnage bridge. If that honesty box was to start generating more income then Luke may be able to spend more on tree clearance and the like. The issue with hire company is that they discourage their customers paying the voluntary toll. This has resulted in Luke being non to welcoming with craft from that yard - To me that is wholly understandable. A machine for the day - Just the machine costs £350 then on top of that there is men, tools, reducing down the offcut material, stacking / drying / burning etc. That needs a lot of £4 donations! Not mentioning any business names here please peeps as that may lead to legal difficulties. Luke has a glamping / camping site near to the banks of the waterway on his land, he encourages clients to use dinghies / canoes to use the waterway I am informed that the waterway is navigable to just past Tonnage bridge. However this is at your own risk and you must proceed very slowly / cautiously. Just north of Tonnage bridge is a large tree which is causing an obstruction. However dinghies / canoes should manage without difficulty. Some above and underwater obstructions near to the banks have already been cleared Griff

A working group clearing overhanging branches? - Sign me up. 'B.A' can be used as a hotel boat Griff

Ok, here we go. Having spoken with Graham from the NWDC Trust earlier this morning I have hurriedly written down what he told me, there's a lot of it. Time to put a few rumours to bed once and for all in no particular order:- Firstly - The long term aim for the trust is to restore the canal from Wayford to Swafield Bridge This is not a rumour but a long term aim. Secondly - 'There is not enough water available to operate the canal or locks' Simply NOT TRUE. There was a statement put out in 1968 that there was insufficient water to operate the canal that was way off the mark. At present the water flow is 18 tons per minute on average over a 12 month period. Arthur Walker of Cubit and Walker Millers knew what the situation was with the canal and water capacity. The water flow was sufficient to run and operate numerous water powered mills, and allow wherries through the locks numerous times per day. They had sufficient water to operate the mills and locks. Present day they estimate they could operate a lock every 20 minutes. Graham informs me that the above is supported by written evidence More to follow Griff

WOW, I've just spent about half an hour on the phone with Graham from the NW&DC Trust. Marshy - The post you put earlier re the landowner being difficult is way off the mark, so was my reply too - Could really do with deleting both of them entirely. I've leant loads, written a stack of notes and now need to put it together is some sort of order. There are so many bad rumours / untruths about this canal out in the public media - makes your eyes water. (Pun intended) I'm going to have a cup of tea, then start to try and get what I have learnt in order. I had to stop Graham and stop taking notes about the upper sections - that's for another day - Hugely interesting stuff though Griff

Good points / information there Marshy, I'll have a search round and try to find a name / contact details to ask Griff

Peter, the top rubbing strip on the transom only goes as far as where the side decks are, not all the way across in a curve. So on your model about an inch or so, it then stops on a curve. The transom has a single piece of hardwood on the top curved to match the transom. I'll see if I can find a photo or two Griff

Yes I know he cannot but he can make it unpleasant for people..... Those 'People' can in return make it unpleasant for 'He' whilst legally exercising their navigational rights. It's ages since I went up from Wayford to Honing lock in a dinghy with an outboard on it. We managed the trip there and back no problem. (Got some photo's somewhere of the trip) I wonder what the water depth is now? 3ft or more and I could take 'B.A' to Honing lock and back. That would really upset 'He' Btw Marshman - does 'He' own the land both sides of the waterway? does he own the land right up to and next to Honing Lock? Griff

More's the pity none of them were 'B.A' with me onboard Griff

I'll purchase an extra Euro lottery ticket on Tuesday. If the jackpot comes my way, then you will have your tupperware Alpha 32. There, I've said it and it's in writing Griff

Jeremy Clarkson’s words of wisdom : Fishing. It’s not one of my specialist subjects. I do not want to stand up to my gentleman’s area in an icy Scottish river and I’d rather spend my spare time in the pub, with friends, than sitting, by myself, on a damp canal bank with a bag full of maggots. Fishing, really, is for people who hate their children. But, this morning, I feel duty-bound to come to the defence of the nation’s anglists, who are being blamed for an alarming drop in salmon numbers in Scottish rivers. There used to be a time when 25% of all the fish that left their birthplace came back. Today, it’s just 5%. Those who enjoy animal rights say fishermen and fishermen women are to blame, along with farmers and bankers and possibly Mrs Thatcher, and conveniently fail to mention a couple of important points. Almost all the salmon caught by anglers are allowed to resume their journey after they’ve been landed. And, more importantly, the mouth of every Scottish salmon river is patrolled these days by an armada of hungry seals. You want to get the salmon numbers up, you must do something about the number of seals. But what? Seals have big doe eyes and puppy-dog faces, and no one wants to see them being beaten to death with bats. This, then, is the problem with conservation. Protect one species — and seals are very protected — and it’s going to have an impact on another. It’s all a question of balance and being sensible. Which, I’m afraid, is hard when our government is being advised by a Swedish teenager and Chris Packham. Packham is a wildlife presenter on the BBC, and I like him. He’s a good communicator, fun to be with, hugely knowledgable about punk rock and able to tell a corn bunting from a reed bunting at 400 paces. He’s also a fine lobbyist. So fine, in fact, that, having teamed up with a former conservation director of the airborne wing of the Labour Party, the RSPB, he was able to convince the government’s conservation watchdog, Natural England, to announce that it is now illegal to shoot pigeons. Now I’m not going to be silly about this. Last weekend, as the sun blazed down, I very much enjoyed sitting in the garden listening to the wood pigeons cooing away. It’s a sound that makes me feel warm and fuzzy. And I don’t hold with the argument that town pigeons should be hounded to extinction because they crap on your car. They do, but it’s not a big issue to get a hosepipe and wash it off. However, I’m a farmer these days, and one of the things I grow is oilseed rape. I grew enough last year to make 100,000 bottles of vegetable oil. This year, though, things are tricky, because a weed called black grass, which is immune to herbicides, is ravaging the crop. And what’s left is being half-inched by pigeons. I’m told that I can try scaring them away with loud bangs and kites and statues of Jon Pertwee, but I’m also told by the Viyella army of local countrymen that none of these things actually works. You have to shoot them. And now we can’t. Score one for Packham and Corbyn’s RAF. But hang on, because if there’s less oilseed rape, that means there’s less vegetable oil, which will drive demand for alternatives such as palm oil. And palm oil production is what’s destroying the jungles of Indonesia, and with them the orang-utan. So what the do-gooders have done by helping the pigeon, which is as prolific as nitrogen, is kill more of Borneo’s endangered orange monkeys. And that’s obviously idiotic. Happily, there seems to be a solution. For nearly 40 years farmers have been using a so-called general licence to shoot pigeons, because they’re protected under wild bird legislation, drawn up to save important stuff like the osprey and the golden eagle and so on. In short, you could get permission to shoot certain kinds of common and unimportant wild birds, such as pigeons and crows and magpies, if it was bleeding obvious they were stealing eggs, pecking out the eyes of lambs or devastating crops. Well, thanks to Chris Packham’s lot, that permission has now gone. There is one idea for keeping the pigeon under control. Simply remove it, along with the crow and the magpie, from the legislation covering wild birds. Then no special permission to kill it is necessary. It’s not as if this minor shift in the law would cause millions to take to the countryside each weekend in weirdo NRA combat strides, because to shoot a pigeon you need a gun, and you still need a licence for that. But will the government allow a pigeon free-for-all? It should. It makes sense. We live in weird times, though, when governments in general and ours in particular are entirely detached from the real world. They seem to live in a universe full of unicorns and magic fairy dust. So there’s no way Michael Gove, who’s running the countryside this week, is going to say, “Lock and load, Farmer Giles. Let’s waste the motherf******!” So what about this for a plan? We pat Chris Packham on the back and say, with a magnanimous smile, that he has won. A bit like remainers are being urged to do by Brexiteers. But then we carry on as before. A bit like Brexiteers are being urged to do by remainers. Seriously, can you see the police being that bothered? Really? About the death of a pigeon? And how would they ever know? A shotgun is noisy, but it’s not so noisy that it can be heard in the nearest police station, which these days is usually 20 miles away. And only open from nine to five. On a Tuesday. Plod isn’t interested when I have a gate or a quad bike nicked, so I can hardly see a Swat team coming through the door with an enforcer ram because they suspect the pie I’m taking out of the Aga has four and twenty pigeons in it

Come to think I have used pyrography, before now on 'B.A' when we added another support bow for the wheelhouse canopy. The original ones had been marked up in Roman numerals using sommat very hot, I did the same using a soldering iron to the extra bow. I just never knew there was a name for it. Way after then we have since altered / enhanced / replaced the lot of them. Then I marked them up with a dremel I seem to remember Griff

Memory? Who said that and when? Anyroadup, I agree, Yes the rivers do seem to get very busy these days Griff

Lovely descriptive photo. Ooooh, look at that, 'S105' reg numbers - Well within 2m of the bow I would say Griff

Back on topic (We need another thread re Catfield/Waxham) The shuttering is due to be removed today at about 2pm. Then the new concrete drop cill can bee seen in all it's glory. Of course, one the gates are in, it will not be seen again for some years, all being well. This drop cill and the stop planks which go with it have been placed there to avoid the need for there ever needing to be a bund again. Future maintenance work can be performed behind the drop planks, in the dry. Griff

perhaps I could use pyrography I don't know how you do it - Come up with so many good ideas. I've never even heard of pyrography let alone seen it used and to stunning effects too Griff

I wasn't so much concerned with turning 'B.A' around or not, warping or not. My question was water depth bearing in mind the levels would need to be lower than normal to get through that bridge in the first place 6ft 5" or more and I can take her through all day long Griff

Well the answer for us there then is not to bother turning but to come back out going astern. What could possibly go wrong? Griff

So, Catfield Dyke would be a tad difficult on 'B.A' then? She draws 2ft 6" but her skeg design means the prop / rudder is well protected Griff