Mrwiggly

[mrwiggly]

hi guys, i'm new to this so please bear with me,

i'm thinking of changing my engines from my colvic to ford 1800 diesels, is there anyone out there who can tell me what i need to marinise these engines, 

[ranworthbreeze]

Hello mrwiggly, 

Welcome to the NBN forum. 

Please let us know a little bit about yourself and your times on the Broads.

I can not help you on advice regarding your engines, maybe if you let us know what engines are currently fitted, forum members may be able to help.

Regards

Alan

[Guest]

1 hour ago, mrwiggly said:

hi guys, i'm new to this so please bear with me,

i'm thinking of changing my engines from my colvic to ford 1800 diesels, is there anyone out there who can tell me what i need to marinise these engines, 

The best online information resource for marinising car engines is Lancing Marine, down in Sussex.

They've been manufacturing and supplying car engine conversion kits for quite a few years now, and supply marinisation kits to the public and the trade.

Their website is comprehensive and full of information, with downloadable PDF guides and prices.

http://www.lancingmarine.com/

If you're marinising a used Ford 1800 diesel (FSD), you will need a gearbox or outdrive adapter, a heat exchanger/exhaust manifold, and raw water pump and hoses, plus a few other bits and pieces. They list complete bolt-on kits.

One thing to bear in mind, if you're converting from a high power petrol engine to a marinised diesel car engine, you will usually lose the power to plane, (eg above 10mph), because of the significant horsepower reduction, (typically from 200hp down to about 80hp).

Fine for the Broads and inland waterway speeds though.

It will be quite an expensive project though, around £2000 per engine for just the conversion parts, plus the considerable local boatyard labour costs if you're not a DIYer.

[BroadScot]

Hi mrwiggly,

Welcome to the NBN Forum I think you will find the information you require, has been kindly supplied by Strowager.

Happy engine changing ! 

Iain

 

[Hockham Admiral]

Welcome aboard from us too, mrwiggly and the Very Best of Luck!   

.

[mrwiggly]

1 hour ago, Strowager said:

The best online information resource for marinising car engines is Lancing Marine, down in Sussex.

They've been manufacturing and supplying car engine conversion kits for quite a few years now, and supply marinisation kits to the public and the trade.

Their website is comprehensive and full of information, with downloadable PDF guides and prices.

http://www.lancingmarine.com/

If you're marinising a used Ford 1800 diesel (FSD), you will need a gearbox or outdrive adapter, a heat exchanger/exhaust manifold, and raw water pump and hoses, plus a few other bits and pieces. They list complete bolt-on kits.

One thing to bear in mind, if you're converting from a high power petrol engine to a marinised diesel car engine, you will usually lose the power to plane, (eg above 10mph), because of the significant horsepower reduction, (typically from 200hp down to about 80hp).

Fine for the Broads and inland waterway speeds though.

It will be quite an expensive project though, around £2000 per engine for just the conversion parts, plus the considerable local boatyard labour costs if you're not a DIYer.

thanks for this info strowager, but i think that's a bit expensive for me, i'll see what happens when i try to start my bmc engines

[mrwiggly]

thanx for the welcome guys, i have a colvic traveller which i'm renovating, it has 2 bmc 1500 diesels in her but they've not been fired up in 9yrs that's why i was looking for a cheap way out if they're nackered

[mrwiggly]

48 minutes ago, Hockham Admiral said:

Welcome aboard from us too, mrwiggly and the Very Best of Luck!   

.

thank you

[JanetAnne]

Keep the BMC's....  they are almost bomb proof. 

However, that 1800 is not a bad choice. We have one attached  to an Enfield stern drive and its quiet enough and a reliable old thing.

I believe ASAP also carry marinisation parts for them 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, mrwiggly said:

thanks for this info strowager, but i think that's a bit expensive for me, i'll see what happens when i try to start my bmc engines

I'd wrongly assumed you were converting from petrol, and maybe with sterndrives.

JanetAnne is quite right, BMC 1500's can be very long lived, as you say it just depends on how they've survived the nine year storage and how worn they were then.

Conversion to a DIY marinised Ford car diesel would be a little cheaper than my £2000 estimate (each)  if you're mating them to shafts rather than outdrives.

Used BMCs come up regularly on Ebay, where people are converting to a modern Nanni or Yanmar etc..

 

[mrwiggly]

1 hour ago, Strowager said:

I'd wrongly assumed you were converting from petrol, and maybe with sterndrives.

JanetAnne is quite right, BMC 1500's can be very long lived, as you say it just depends on how they've survived the nine year storage and how worn they were then.

Conversion to a DIY marinised Ford car diesel would be a little cheaper than my £2000 estimate (each)  if you're mating them to shafts rather than outdrives.

Used BMCs come up regularly on Ebay, where people are converting to a modern Nanni or Yanmar etc..

 

they are on shafts, i had them running 9yrs ago, but they've been lying outside in all weather, until i bought the boat last year, i've already unsiezed them so we'll see what happens.

[mrwiggly]

3 hours ago, JanetAnne said:

Keep the BMC's....  they are almost bomb proof. 

However, that 1800 is not a bad choice. We have one attached  to an Enfield stern drive and its quiet enough and a reliable old thing.

I believe ASAP also carry marinisation parts for them 

thanks janetanne,

[mrwiggly]

i was hoping i could get all the parts for marinising the ford engines cheaper on ebay, just needed to know what i needed, as the bmc's are old engines it'll be hard to get parts for will that be the case ??

[mrwiggly]

5 hours ago, BroadScot said:

Hi mrwiggly,

Welcome to the NBN Forum I think you will find the information you require, has been kindly supplied by Strowager.

Happy engine changing ! 

Iain

 

thanx iain

[Guest]

2 hours ago, mrwiggly said:

i was hoping i could get all the parts for marinising the ford engines cheaper on ebay, just needed to know what i needed, as the bmc's are old engines it'll be hard to get parts for will that be the case ??

I've kept a standing search on ebay for marinisation parts for several years now, and they come up very rarely, just the odd flywheel/bellhousing adapter or heat exchanger, and even then, they're very model specific.

Lancing Marine still seems to be the only specialist manufacturer and supplier for marinisation kits.

Getting parts for the BMCs is still very easy, the already mentioned ASAP at Beccles carry a wide stock for mail order or personal collection.

http://www.asap-supplies.com/engine-spares-gearboxes/engine-spare-parts/bmc-leyland-land-rover-engine-parts/bmc-1-5-leyland-1500-diesel

[JanetAnne]

Agreed. Strowager is right, most parts are still very easy to get for the BMC. And no timing belts so no hand grenade moments like the Ford.

 

[mrwiggly]

17 hours ago, Strowager said:

I've kept a standing search on ebay for marinisation parts for several years now, and they come up very rarely, just the odd flywheel/bellhousing adapter or heat exchanger, and even then, they're very model specific.

Lancing Marine still seems to be the only specialist manufacturer and supplier for marinisation kits.

Getting parts for the BMCs is still very easy, the already mentioned ASAP at Beccles carry a wide stock for mail order or personal collection.

http://www.asap-supplies.com/engine-spares-gearboxes/engine-spare-parts/bmc-leyland-land-rover-engine-parts/bmc-1-5-leyland-1500-diesel

just checked that out strowager  thanks for the info, should finish inside cabin in a week or 2, then i'll start on engines, and see how it goes.

[mrwiggly]

12 hours ago, JanetAnne said:

Agreed. Strowager is right, most parts are still very easy to get for the BMC. And no timing belts so no hand grenade moments like the Ford.

 

has the ford not got a timing chain janetanne,

[JanetAnne]

It's belt driven and, should it fail, because the valves are straight rather than angled in the head, it will snap the camshaft above into three parts and destroy the carrier's. 

Replacement heads are easily available  though...

 

 

Edited June 13, 2016 by BroadScot
Sorted JA

[JanetAnne]

Alove? Above!

[JawsOrca]

+1 for BMC.. (although we do have a vetus but that's different)..

Be careful with Lancing too they only know one price. .£1k and prices increase in the same interval. 

New Mpower or Beta if you want to re-engine.. 

[LondonRascal]

@ mrwiggly: Are you a chap who likes to go where few dare? Are you an innovator, a go getter and intrepid ‘first adopter’ – I hope so because I am going to talk to you about a subject that leaves most mobo owners suffering a shiver up their spine in disgust.

Chinese marine engines.

Right, now that is out the way let us continue..

For some reason engine manufactures can produce many hundreds of thousands of engines a year for their cars, such as Toyota and these engines are very cheap so far as the overall cost of the new vehicle is concerned, but take the smaller volume marine engine market, and the base engine you may find in a van suddenly will cost perhaps twice the cost of the complete van once it has been marinised.

Because this is a good business to be in, those who do this work (Like BETA Marine, Nanni etc) would prefer their technology, parts and expertise is kept ‘in house’ and not produce the kits and parts for people like us to do it ourselves.

So where do the Chinese come into this? Well they do one of two things – they buy an older base engine (tooling, casts the lot) or just get one, take it apart and clone it so if you have ethics this may not be the right action to take, the bonus though is they are cheap.  While someone working in Birmingham for BETA Marine will be classed as a skilled professional engineer and have a good salary for this role, his Chinese counterpart may not be paid the minimum wage here let alone a salary that is commiserate with their experience and engineering know how. 

Now M-Power Engine are a UK based distributor of what are pretty high quality Chinese made marine engines based mostly on Nissan engine bases.  

They come with a three year warranty and if you took just one example – 58Hp with PMR gearbox inc VAT comes in at about £4,800.00. Smaller engine, smaller price – want to get a cloned PMR gearbox – your save even more. They have their price list on their site - which is handy. 

Now some will say this is very bad because they are cheap, they won’t last, your not have a supplier network to help when things go wrong – I am not so sure because these are being churned out in their thousands and a major buyer is Russia and this YouTube channel shows many of the base engines being installed and working well in some pretty cold challenging conditions. Here is an example of a smaller unit running:

Genuinely if I owned say an ex hire boat that was 30 odd years old, had a BMC that was not that happy I would get one of these and not fork out for a new ‘branded’ BETA Marine or Nanni engine. 

 

 

[JawsOrca]

25 minutes ago, LondonRascal said:

Now some will say this is very bad because they are cheap, they won’t last, your not have a supplier network to help when things go wrong

That's bad.. (South park TV show..Soz couldn't resist)...

We spoke to them one year at the LBS.. Engines seemed good.. (they was offering some insane deals).  Some plumbing on them do look a bit flunky though and the alternators could probably be upgraded. We would try them though certainly for inland use. We suggested the yacht club used them to replace a seized Perkins Prima engine but they replaced with a Beta (various reasons). 

I know Charlie and Steve spoke to them and the UK service needs improving but I find most small manufacturing companies hard work to deal with. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, JawsOrca said:

Be careful with Lancing too they only know one price. .£1k and prices increase in the same interval. 

I've been using Lancing for many years now, and many of my boating acquaintances too.

We've always found their pricing to be very reasonable, considering the quality of the components and the limited specialist market they're supplying to.

For instance, their complete dieselise kit to convert a Volvo petrol 290 leg to Ford 1600/1800 diesel is £2397, containing everything except the used FSD car engine and any required prop change. (photo attached of all the parts included).

Considering the plentiful supply of appropriate low mileage Ford diesel engines in breakers, for about £500 or so, the complete conversion can be amazingly cheap, especially for anyone with fairly reasonable car mechanic type skills.

I wouldn't let a cam belt put me off a diesel engine. Much easier and cheaper to regularly change than a rattly old chain.

How many forum car owners have actually suffered a cam belt breakage ? (Considering that 95% of cars have been fitted with them for the past 20 years or more).

[Bound2Please]

I have suffered a cam belt failure at 80mph on a belt that had been changed 12k miles before, by a Dealer. Fan belt snapped then got inside cover of cam belt.......................... bang