Bbqs On Boats

[Jocave]

I know this has been discussed before but thought one more wouldn't hurt, now I know this may be perfectly safe in most peoples eyes but to me its just wrong , the pic was taken at Ranworth staithe so its not as if there was a lack of space to have a BBQ on dry land, its probably a gas one so a bit safer than a charcoal one but still surely putting it at the back of the boat would be more sensible

[JennyMorgan]

We can only hope that the yard saw it going aboard and presumably they didn't object. Maybe the yard supplies them for their customers to use? I have a barbecue on the veranda of my shed, not a problem, why should it be? .

[SwanR]

9 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

We can only hope that the yard saw it going aboard and presumably they didn't object. Maybe the yard supplies them for their customers to use? 

The yards aren't usually watching what you're taking on board. And I've never known them to have a BBQ as an optional chargeable extra. And they would charge ... if we read the paperwork correctly Barnes Brinkcraft even charge you for a mallet to use with your rhond anchors!!

[MauriceMynah]

I was of the view that portable gas appliances were not allowed on hire craft. I hope the boat-yard concerned has this picture brought to their attention. How they react to it is of course up to them, whether they 'go in hard' or adopt the 'softly softly' approach is a matter for their people to decide, not this forum. ( I hate 'Trial by forum' ).

Would someone please enlighten me as to WHY portable gas appliances are banned by hire yards.

[JennyMorgan]

Who needs a mallet for rhond anchors! Wiggle & push, in they go, like a warm needle into chocolate! 

The point I was trying to make was that we don't know the facts and in that particular instance there did not appear to be a problem, not like the disposable BBQ's we see being laid directly onto gel coat decks and cabin tops.

[JennyMorgan]

Just now, MauriceMynah said:

I was of the view that portable gas appliances were not allowed on hire craft. I hope the boat-yard concerned has this picture brought to their attention. How they react to it is of course up to them, whether they 'go in hard' or adopt the 'softly softly' approach is a matter for their people to decide, not this forum. ( I hate 'Trial by forum' ).

Would someone please enlighten me as to WHY portable gas appliances are banned by hire yards.

Within cabin space because of the potential of a gas leak or carbon monoxide poisoning. The same really should also apply to private boats too.

[MauriceMynah]

7 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Who needs a mallet for rhond anchors! Wiggle & push, in they go, like a warm needle into chocolate

Mallets and club hammers are very useful in the height of the summer when the rain has hardened off the tarmac. Also those granite chippings are really difficult to get through if you are just using your foot to drive it in.

[JennyMorgan]

Just now, MauriceMynah said:

Mallets and club hammers are very useful in the height of the summer when the rain has hardened off the tarmac. Also those granite chippings are really difficult to get through if you are just using your foot to drive it in.

Why not place your rhonde anchor in the soft stuff beyond the boat unfriendly tarmac or chippings?

[MauriceMynah]

I'd have to ask the gardener if I may.  

[JawsOrca]

I still find it strange that there's a lot of carbon monoxide deaths reported on inland riverways compared to the about of sea boats there are out there.... 

All about natural selection  

[ExUserGone]

On an open deck with plenty of air and space, on a stand so no where near the grp, I don't see an issue there.

[smellyloo]

One day the finger of scorn might be pointed at you ......

So make sure you always look miserable and bored out of your brains that way you might avoid the picture of shame!!

[Vaughan]

1 hour ago, MauriceMynah said:

Would someone please enlighten me as to WHY portable gas appliances are banned by hire yards.

It is not just the hire yards - it is forbidden by the RCD (Recreational Craft Directive).

EN ISO 10239 part 11 to be precise.

So if your boat is built after 1992 it is forbidden. If not, you are probably entitled to set fire to your boat if you wish!

Just before I left them, Le Boat introduced a brand new class of boat with an electric barbecue built into the furniture on the sun deck. When I first saw this I asked the "big bosses" what would happen if a young child put their hand on this black hot plate? How would they explain that in court? This, of course, was another nail in my coffin as far as they were concerned!

Only a year later, one of these boats was set on fire by this barbecue and was burnt out to the waterline. The German customers lost all their personal belongings and were very lucky to escape with their lives.

Surely we know that the main thing that mariners fear most is not the sea : it is fire on board.

[MauriceMynah]

I had guessed that it would be something of the sort, My question was more along the lines of...

Danger of fire,

Danger of Co poisoning,

Danger of damage to the boat. I see all three as possibilities, and wondered which was in the hirefleets minds. Thanks Vaughan for clarifying the matter.

[ExUserGone]

Quote

It is not just the hire yards - it is forbidden by the RCD (Recreational Craft Directive).

Can they actually forbid a portable appliance as the directive only relates to the craft surely, maybe the regs for hire or passenger use could do something but I would have thought the portable nature would have taken it out of the rcd's remit.

I will point out that I've never read the rcd regs and never likely to so ready to be shot down in flames (without the use of any gas appliances portable or otherwise)

There's nothing unusual about gas cookers inside the accommodation area of a boat is there.

[Vaughan]

4 hours ago, Dilligaf said:

Can they actually forbid a portable appliance as the directive only relates to the craft surely, maybe the regs for hire or passenger use could do something but I would have thought the portable nature would have taken it out of the rcd's remit.

I will point out that I've never read the rcd regs and never likely to so ready to be shot down in flames (without the use of any gas appliances portable or otherwise)

There's nothing unusual about gas cookers inside the accommodation area of a boat is there.

Your question is a very good one and deserves a detailed answer, as others may be unsure about this.

The RCD is actually a maritime regulation and in Europe, there are no rules specific to inland waterways. The old French regulations concerned the horsepower of the engine, and there were 5 categories. The modern EC regulations have 4 categories which concern wave height, wind force and the distance from "shelter" that a boat is allowed to cruise. Cat A is effectively ocean going and cat D has been adopted by the VNF (Voies Navigables de France) for use on inland waterways. This causes a few problems about size of anchors, etc, but exemptions have been negotiated in those cases.

All new motor cruisers, even in Norfolk, have to be built to EC rules and these are cat D, for use on inland waterways. Most are built to cat C however, as this gives them a market for sale as offshore cruisers. Ranworthbreeze is a good example - used for cat D, but built to cat C.

You are quite right to say that the RCD is a "construction" regulation, but sometimes "construction" and "use" cannot be separated, especially where gas is concerned. ISO 10239 is a number that I know by heart as it has been my "bible" for many years as a European hire boat operator. Gas regulations also must contain the need for VENTILATION. Living spaces in a boat must have ventilation according to the appliances that are being used in them, and the rules are very specific.

4 hours ago, Dilligaf said:

There's nothing unusual about gas cookers inside the accommodation area of a boat is there.

No, there isn't, and gas properly installed is very safe on a boat. The problem would be, if you added a portable appliance, such as a camping gas stove or a paraffin heater and the accommodation did not have sufficient ventilation to cope with this. Remember this is not just about CO - it is more important to consider CO2, since these appliances are burning the oxygen in your cabin.

Having said that, in the British Isles we do have a specific inland waterways regulation - the BSS - and that takes precedence over the RCD when it comes to "use" of the boat on the Broads. Although a modern boat will have been built to RCD in the first place, and so the BSS becomes more of an MOT Test.

I don't know what the BSS says about portable appliances - no doubt others on the forum can tell us  - but I imagine they must insist on something similar.

As for barbecues, I would never, deliberately, want to have something in use on my boat that was likely to set fire to it, and I am certain the hire boat owners don't either!

 

[teadaemon]

There are two things to consider from a BSS perspective:

1) The checks themselves, which do refer to portable appliances, but also to gas bottles (which in this case may be more relevant). It may be possible to store and use a gas barbeque such as is pictured in a way that passes all of the relevant checks. It may even be possible to do this by accident, without actually referring to the checks, if the person doing it is sensible and takes what I would consider ordinary precautions. I'm not going to comment on whether the picture shows a failure for any specific check, as to be honest, without actually being there it's difficult to say definitively one way or the other.

2) The advice from the BSS office to boat owners, which is unambiguous. It states that whilst it's ok to carry portable gas appliances on board if done so in a way that passes the relevant checks, it is recommended that they are only used on shore.

With regard to whether the scene pictured shows an offence related to the RCD, I'd say it doesn't, as the RCD is consumer legislation that applies when a boat is first placed on the market within the EU. Having said that, were there to be an incident in a situation like this, the person who brought the gas bottle and barbeque on board and/or the person using them, may find themselves liable under both civil and potentially criminal law.