Tolls

[JennyMorgan]

On 19/04/2019 at 10:41, marshman said:

As I said you are entitled to your view - this system has worked well for as long as I can remember, so why change it? Oh yes I know, a minority think it would be better but how often does a new system and process result in reduce costs? I remain to be convinced and I guess, so do the BA.

Computers do have their uses! My fishing licence used to run from April to April, it now runs from the anniversary of the previous purchase. If the EA can do it then so can the BA. I agree that the basic format is about right but there is nothing to stop the current system evolving with a little bit of help from techknowledgey. 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, JennyMorgan said:

John, MM, I don't think that there can ever be fully inclusive elections at the Authority but there can be elections, even it is only for toll payer representation since over half their income comes from us. At the moment JP appears intent in removing County Council & Parish Council representation so even that voice is under threat. Anyway, representation for those of us who live here is also perfectly feasible and since planning is a function of the Authority then that is surely desirable. I know that I am far from being alone in these thoughts so we shall just have to wait and see. JP brought this one down on himself when he attempted to disband the Navigation Committee, a situation compounded when he actively encouraged the Broads Forum to become moribund. I personally see elections at the Authority as being a probability rather than just a possibility, in large part thanks to JP, 'tis he who created the need.

I would hugely support voted representation on the Nav Committee by toll payers. Doubt if that would be popular with the CEO  

 

But any vote by “those that live here” immediately disenfranchises toll payers who don’t live here. 

 

Good for you and me Mrs Morgan but bad for boat owners who don’t live in the parish. 

 

As is said above, ALL mass taxation is ‘unfair’ to lots of people. 

If you obsess about the minutiae of it you go bonkers. 😜

I pay under £400 for three boats and I think that’s bloody good value. If you have a 40 footer with a Diesel engine you have to expect under the present ‘unfair’ system it’s gonna cost you. 

Enjoy the sunshine  

 

[JennyMorgan]

Bill, a toll payer is a toll payer where ever they live. People who live here are, by definition, resident in the catchment area. As a local I might have two votes, one for a representative for me as a toll payer and another for a representative as me being a resident. Nothing can ever be perfect although I suppose my address could be used to limit me to just one vote. The principle of a democratic input to the Authority is only right and proper, how we go about it is probably not going to be so easy. 

[expilot]

Democracy is such a misunderstood concept.  For thirty plus year we have owned a holiday home on the Broads.  If you want to hear about disenfranchised groups, you ought to talk to the hundreds of people who, like us, are unable to vote in local elections.  I may want to seek my parish councillor's support and/or my district councillor's support, but can only do so knowing that I have absolutely no say over who represents me in the area in which I spend thousands of pounds a year.

[Poppy]

On 21/04/2019 at 09:37, batrabill said:

I would hugely support voted representation on the Nav Committee by toll payers. Doubt if that would be popular with the CEO  

 

But any vote by “those that live here” immediately disenfranchises toll payers who don’t live here. 

 

 

 

Simple. One vote for each Broads registered boar owner. New to the broads adds the right to vote, whilst leaving the Broads or giving up Broads boating immediately disenfranchises the individual.

[Meantime]

Part of the problem is the BA executive area. How can it ever be right that you can live in the BA executive area and have any planning application decided by the BA, when you cannot vote for any representation on the BA? I guess similar problems exist if you were to give votes to people who have boats on The Broads, whether they live in the area or not, what then happens to people who live in the area, who do not own a boat? Shouldn't they be allowed to vote as well.

I suspect it wouldn't be seen as a popular choice but I would fully support the BA executive area being reduced to encompass just the boundaries of the rivers and broads. The remit of the BA being reduced to just maintaining and policing the rivers and Broads. All the properties, commercial and residential that were in the old executive area be allotted back into the neighbouring parishes with all planning functions returned to the local councils. I really don't care whether the BA were left with two or three of it's current remits, as long as it only carried them out on the river and Broads and left the land based functions to the existing parish and county councils.

If the above could ever become a reality then it becomes very simple. You own a boat, you get a vote, it doesn't matter where you live because the BA (or as it should be, Navigation Authority) only manages the navigation and not the land around it.

[Guest]

54 minutes ago, Poppy said:

Simple. One vote for each Broads registered boar owner. New to the broads adds the right to vote, whilst leaving the Broads or giving up Broads boating immediately disenfranchises the individual.

So, if I register a canoe I get a vote, but if I own a house on the river, but don't own a boat, I don't get a vote???? 

There is no possible way of having elections to the Broads Authority which resolve these issues with it in its present form.

You could have boaters representation on the Nav committee elected but I have never seen an explanation of who the electorate is for the wider authority.

Lots of calls for an elected body, but much like another thorny issue we are all struggling with that begins with B, it's easy to say you want something, but then you have to make it work.

42 minutes ago, EastCoastIPA said:

You own a boat, you get a vote, it doesn't matter where you live because the BA (or as it should be, Navigation Authority) only manages the navigation and not the land around it.

A slimmed down Broads Authority does seem possible, but are you saying ONLY boaters get a say? What about everyone else?

There is more to the remit than just the right of navigation. Anglers, walkers, bird watchers, kite flyers, swimmers, dog owners, cat owners, businesses, everyone - but they don't get a vote???

Lots of powerful voices there who are never going to let that happen.

On 21/04/2019 at 10:00, JennyMorgan said:

Bill, a toll payer is a toll payer where ever they live. People who live here are, by definition, resident in the catchment area. As a local I might have two votes, one for a representative for me as a toll payer and another for a representative as me being a resident. Nothing can ever be perfect although I suppose my address could be used to limit me to just one vote. The principle of a democratic input to the Authority is only right and proper, how we go about it is probably not going to be so easy. 

This seems the most plausible - but I can't think of any system where someone gets 2 votes, so 1 vote for either residents, OR boaters, just one vote each.

But if you leave the planning function with the BA, I have that pesky canoe owner having influence on my planning application on my house through his/her vote. Sounds a bit odd, no?

If you remove the planning function then the house owner is simply in a County Council. Since the river isn't just the bank, doesn't my neighbour who doesn't have river access have no rights even though he is only 50 years from the river?

Complicated innit?

 

[MauriceMynah]

I don't live on the broads (sadly) so how the merry whatsits could I know for whom I should vote (assuming I don't have Peter telling me who!)

[Guest]

1 minute ago, MauriceMynah said:

I don't live on the broads (sadly) so how the merry whatsits could I know for whom I should vote (assuming I don't have Peter telling me who!)

Ah... that is a scary outcome. 

[MauriceMynah]

4 minutes ago, batrabill said:

Ah... that is a scary outcome. 

Isn't it just! :-)

[JennyMorgan]

32 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

Isn't it just! :-)

Indeed!

[Meantime]

28 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Indeed!

I know who he wouldn't be voting for!

[Poppy]

15 hours ago, batrabill said:

So, if I register a canoe I get a vote, but if I own a house on the river, but don't own a boat, I don't get a vote???? 

There is no possible way of having elections to the Broads Authority which resolve these issues with it in its present form.

You could have boaters representation on the Nav committee elected but I have never seen an explanation of who the electorate is for the wider authority.

Lots of calls for an elected body, but much like another thorny issue we are all struggling with that begins with B, it's easy to say you want something, but then you have to make it work.

A slimmed down Broads Authority does seem possible, but are you saying ONLY boaters get a say? What about everyone else?

There is more to the remit than just the right of navigation. Anglers, walkers, bird watchers, kite flyers, swimmers, dog owners, cat owners, businesses, everyone - but they don't get a vote???

Lots of powerful voices there who are never going to let that happen.

This seems the most plausible - but I can't think of any system where someone gets 2 votes, so 1 vote for either residents, OR boaters, just one vote each.

But if you leave the planning function with the BA, I have that pesky canoe owner having influence on my planning application on my house through his/her vote. Sounds a bit odd, no?

If you remove the planning function then the house owner is simply in a County Council. Since the river isn't just the bank, doesn't my neighbour who doesn't have river access have no rights even though he is only 50 years from the river?

Complicated innit?

 

My suggestion was directed towards reforming the Navigation Committee.   Direct election votes for all property owners within the BA Exec. area for the main authority perhaps?  As for anglers and twitchers, they pay nothing directly to the Broads. I've long held that they should!

[Ray]

If a fair way of electing members can't be found for a body with "powers" then the "powers" should be removed.

A simplistic view which would leave the job of devolving "necessary" powers to pre-existing democratically elected bodies. Not an impossible task though

I have taken holidays all over the UK and never felt that I should have a vote in their local elections even though as a visitor planning decisions, fees, access etc. would affect me.