Chinese Heaters

[Cockatoo]

I've posted about this in the members section but I thought it might be worthwhile mentioning here as well. I've just replaced the knackered Webasto on Cockatoo with one of the cheap Chinese heaters. It was a really easy installation using the fuel feed, mounting bracket and exhaust from the Webasto set up but was complicated by the rotten hot air ducting. This has now been replaced with aluminium ducting clad in the original Webasto insulation sleeve, saving about £100 over using Webasto ducting. Some of the bodges that were present can be seen below. The Y piece shown is 60 odd mm instead of 75.

 

Now it's all good and yesterday I swapped the heater for a new one that I ordered as a spare to make sure it worked ok so I now have a spare.

 

I also installed an "Afterburner" Bluetooth and WiFi enabled controller which gives better temp control and loads of other stuff I haven't discovered yet, I must RTFM :)

 

Total cost of everything has been less than £300 which is better than the annual servicing cost of the Webasto, and I have a spare. TBH even if I had to replace the unit every year I would be quids in.

 

Link to Afterburner

 

http://www.mrjones.id.au/afterburner/

 

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[dnks34]

Thats not a bodge, its known as an east anglian solution!

[Cockatoo]

2 minutes ago, dnks34 said:

Thats not a bodge, its known as an east anglian solution!

Believe me, when you see the others on this boat, things like screws into the hull, the fact that every item I take apart has the wrong screws fitted and dont get me started on the rotten floor it is very definitely a bodge.

I'm just greatful the engines were looked after by a guy with a good reputation!

[Cockatoo]

Just an update on the Afterburner:

Out of the box these heaters run in either temperature mode or Hz mode.

Temperature mode means the heater runs flat out until it reaches the target temp and then switches to tickover until the temp drops. Then it's back to flat out again.

Hz mode means you run the unit at a set speed.

The Afterburner introduces Linear Hz mode, you set the target temp and once reached the pump delivery and fan speed are adjusted to maintain the temp.

There are also 14 timers available that you can set. It's nice to come home from work at 07.00 to a nice toasty boat :) I also have a timer set to turn it off when I leave at night in case I forget.

There is a very active group on Facebook about developing the firmware further (it's an open source project) run by the inventor and full instructions and firmware are available to anyone wanting to build their own.

To be honest a lot of the discussion on the group goes right over my head but they don't seem to mind answering my sometimes stupid questions :)

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[Smoggy]

Sounds like a huge advantage over eberspacher that seem to have a 4 degree tolerance which is quite a big range for something that is supposed to be able to maintain a stable temperature, open source is an interesting twist too as it means it will only get better, downside of that is it can get overly complicated as too many nerds get involved.

With ebers a lot of folk say to run flat out and open windows accordingly to avoid coking of the burner, with the chinese ones it's probably cheaper to replace when coked anyway, that said I run my eber to the temp controller letting it idle and it's been fine for the last 4 years.

[Cockatoo]

Sounds like a huge advantage over eberspacher that seem to have a 4 degree tolerance which is quite a big range for something that is supposed to be able to maintain a stable temperature, open source is an interesting twist too as it means it will only get better, downside of that is it can get overly complicated as too many nerds get involved.
With ebers a lot of folk say to run flat out and open windows accordingly to avoid coking of the burner, with the chinese ones it's probably cheaper to replace when coked anyway, that said I run my eber to the temp controller letting it idle and it's been fine for the last 4 years.

Looking at the videos on YouTube de-coking is quite an easy job for any handy d.i.y.er. You can set the tolerance yourself. Mine is set to 1.5°C. You can also adjust the pump/fan speed settings to avoid running too rich (anyone got a boiler exhaust gas analyser?) which should stop the coking up.


They are cheap enough to keep a spare unit in the locker anyway so if something does go wrong I'll have a replacement running in 30 minutes so I won't freeze :)

As you can see from the picture I've still got to make the loom a little bit shorter to tidy up but I am thinking of making a new loom out of proper wire, not the Chinese stuf.

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[Ultrarep]

Hi Cockatoo.

I am restoring a bounty 44 from Rico's that has needed fully gutting to a shell and re starting. I have two Chinese heaters in it and would live to get the afterburner units for them. Can I ask where you got them please?

Both heaters are still temp rigged up just to provide heating while I am working on the boat which now has a floor but nothing else!

Thanks

Steve


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[OldBerkshireBoy]

Anybody find the fuel pump is noisy considering it is on rubber mounts.

It is fitted in the engine bay with the cabin on the other side of the bulkhead and I couldn`t sleep with it pumping away if I wanted too. So my question is are they all this noisy and has anybody swopped one for a different one? It is fitted horizontally not at 30 degrees as the instructions say but it works and I can`t see changing it would effect the noise.

[JanetAnne]

I found they run a lot lot quiter if they are lower than the diesel tank so they are more like gravity fed.

[OldBerkshireBoy]

51 minutes ago, JanetAnne said:

I found they run a lot lot quiter if they are lower than the diesel tank so they are more like gravity fed.

Thanks JA, interesting and worth investigation.

[fourways]

hang the pump with a cable tie or wire dont screw it. cut the noise by 50% on mine.

[Cockatoo]

@OldBerkshireBoy does it make more noise than this?
 

 

If it does then there maybe something wrong with the pump.

The pump was running at 1.8hz when I recorded this

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[Smoggy]

They will click louder with an air bubble in them if not at the right angle.

[Cockatoo]

1 hour ago, Smoggy said:

They will click louder with an air bubble in them if not at the right angle.

And also wear out faster as there is nothing to lubricate where the air is.

 

Here is what John McK has to say about it

 

[OldBerkshireBoy]

@Cockatoo Mine is a lot louder than yours shown in the video (thanks for that). Thinking that I`ll change the pump and if it makes no difference then at the very least I have a spare. Anybody have a link to purchase a pump on it`s own?

There seems to be different views on the mounting of the pump with some saying 30 degrees angle and others saying vertical which doesn`t help either.

Thanks to all that replied.

[Guest]

OBB, you're welcome to our slightly used pump if it would be helpful. We installed a Chinese heater about 18 months ago. It worked well until mid-winter and then failed and all efforts (including changing the glow plug) have failed to get it working properly again, so have given up and replaced it with a Planar/Autoterm. Must warn you that we found the pump noisy though!

[OldBerkshireBoy]

Thanks Spider pm sent.

[OldBerkshireBoy]

On 14/12/2019 at 06:22, fourways said:

hang the pump with a cable tie or wire dont screw it. cut the noise by 50% on mine.

Just seen a youtube video on this and at the part where he presses the pump against the wooden side panel it makes the same noise as mine does so I guess the rubber anti-vibration mount that came in the kit isn`t up to the job.

Thanks to all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxalU1klYoE

 

[Smoggy]

Wrap it some self adhesive expanded neoprene, cheap as chips on fleabay.

[OldBerkshireBoy]

8 hours ago, Smoggy said:

Wrap it some self adhesive expanded neoprene, cheap as chips on fleabay.

Never heard of it! Always willing to learn so will go and take a look however my engineering background makes me wary of wrapping it so I`ll run it up for awhile first to see if the pump becomes warmer over time, that said all ideas are welcome so thanks.

[BroadAmbition]

Diesel heating pumps - That 'Ticking' sound that drives you mad?

Herewith the definitive and final solution.  Honed after years and many attempts at sorting it. Hours of frustration.  Hours of fabricating all sorts of items, hours of trying different locations.  Learning the hard way - 'Do Method' and many many attempts before I finally cracked it.  To such an extent that Mikuni uk were ringing me up to ask How I had sorted it. I'm the worlds leading expert onboard 'B.A' of sorting this issue out so easily and here's how:-

The pumps are 12v operating on a relay type 'Pulse' system, that is to say on / off 12v diaphragm.

My first failed attempt was to mount the pump onto a timber bulkhead close to the diesel tank via the small diameter copper pipe from the tank all the way to the burner unit.  Operated fine but the ticking was horrendous, especially at night when turned in

My second failed attempt was to mount a rubber bobbin on the bulkhead them mount the pump on the bobbin - Improvement but nowhere satisfactory

My third failed attempt was to cover the pump with double thickness sound insulation that one would normally used under the deckboards over the engine space - Improvement but still a failure

My fourth failed attempt was to re-site the pump - Here at last I really started to think about the whole thing and took a big leap forward to solving the problem.  I realised that the harder the pump was working then the more noise it was likely to produce.  So part of the solution was to make the pump have a really easy time of it.  We all (Or should) know that these type of pumps can push far more effectively and easier than they can suck.  So I re-sited the pump low down, making sure it was lower down than the height of its own pick up pipe in the main diesel tank.  Obviously making sure the pump was rubber mounted.   Once I had bled the system the syphonic action aided the pump as the diesel was effectively getting to the pump due to gravity and air pressure all of it's own accord.  Now all the pump had to do was to push the diesel via its own pulse to the burner.  A HUGE improvement but not perfect, therefore still a failure

EUREKA !

The fifth attempt and at last Successful modification.  I realised that the copper capillary pipe was transmitting the physical pulse and noise from the pump into the inside of the diesel tank and amplifying the sound, it was also sending the pulse and noise along the pipe the other way to the burner.  So, borrow / buy one on those diy brake pipe flaring tools (Cheap as chips) cut out about 6" of the hard capillary pipe either side of the pump, flare the ends of the copper pipes (Bss requirement) fit two 6" lengths of dedicated rubber diesel pipe (With the CE markings clearly visible), use eight (Doubling up) s/steel jubilee clips.

Robert is you Dads brother, Fanny is your Aunt.  Silence is golden.  Now onboard 'B.A' the ticking sound has ticked it's last.  If I remove a certain sound proofing sausage and put my ear to the gap, turn everything off onboard at the dead of night and really strain, I can    j u s t    hear it and no more.

Just putting rubber pipes either side of the pump will help but won't make it silent, you need to get the pump   below the height of the pick up pipe in the tank and make life easy for the pump PLUS those rubber pipes PLUS rubber mount the pump

It took me a fair few years and attempts to get it sorted but it was proper worth it.  We have since changed our Mikuni for a Planar unit, bigger pump but still silent.

I share with you all the above knowledge and make no charge other than to share a pint with you at a suitable riverside hostelry as and when.

I will try and dig out some photo's later,

Griff

[BroadAmbition]

I'll have more somewhere but struggling to find them.  I was years ago now when I was battling with this issue

Griff

[OldBerkshireBoy]

Thanks Griff and I reckon your R&D deserves more than one sole pint.

(subject to testing and a happy conclusion to the problem you understand.) 

Can you enlighten me on this "certain sausage of sound proofing" you speak of? Would it be grey foam pipe insulation as found on household pipes to prevent freezing?

[BroadAmbition]

[BroadAmbition]

Can you enlighten me on this "certain sausage of sound proofing" you speak of? Would it be grey foam pipe insulation as found on household pipes to prevent freezing?

Chuffin 'Eck - Now you are asking.

The onboard 'Sausage Soundproofing' system is a unique system onboard 'BA' and no other craft that I am aware of.

'B.A' has wheelhouse sides that are of the 'Sash' window design  That is to say they can be lifted / lowered on counterbalanced weights.  When in the down position there is a 1:5 inch gap along their entire length.  This was allowing engine room noise to escape into the wheelhouse and worryingly was a dead cert for crew members dropping all sorts of paraphernalia down the gap.

So, we got some foam had it covered with the same material as the seats and nowadays whenever the wheelhouse sides are lowered the patented 'Sausage Sound Proofers' are jammed in place

Hope that helps

Griff