Mooring for sale

[Brian J.]

Hi All, Have been a member of the forum for a few months now, but without a boat on the Broads. The plan was to bring my Freeman 23 up from the Thames and moor her at the W.R.C. I paid for a years mooring and for a years B.A. licence and I have now sold her ( due to increasing old aged joints ). So if anyone is after a mooring at the W.R.C. then make me an offer I can't refuse and it's all yours.

I still hope to visit on a hire boat - knees permitting - so may yet get to say Hi to some of you in person.

Brian J.

[Antares_9]

Have you checked with WRC that it's OK to transfer the years mooring licence, it's almost certain that you can't transfer it without their agreement.

[Brian J.]

They will not give me a refund even though I haven't used it. Probably the same with the B.A. but I will phone the B.A. to check. As far as th W.R.C are concerned I can sell on and then inform them of the new owners details.

Brian J.

[Antares_9]

I wouldn't waste your time with the BA, no refunds and if you licence in Jan you still pay a year for a few months usage.

[Guest]

They will not give me a refund even though I haven't used it. Probably the same with the B.A. but I will phone the B.A. to check. As far as th W.R.C are concerned I can sell on and then inform them of the new owners details.

Brian J.

A bit harsh that one? Here's how it works for most marinas, albeit on the Thames, but you could try it with WRC:

Lets say you've paid £2000 up front for your annula mooring but decide to leave after 6 months. Nearly all marinas have a monthly rate for short term moorings and is always more per year than if you have paid up front for an annual mooring. Let's say the monthly rate is £180 a month (equivalent to £2160 a year). As an annual bertholder terminating your berth, they then take the six months you've been there and convert this to 6 x the monthly rate which gives you £1080. They then deduct this £1080 from your annual fee of £2000, giving you a CQ for £920.

These figures are only examples but WRC should give you something back at least. But just having read their T&C, nothing's refundable http://www.waveneyrivercentre.co.uk/mar ... conditions

[senator]

There is a no refund policy at Reedham too, think it is pretty common on the Broads

[Guest DAYTONA-BILL]

I wonder if you were a buisnessman providing an "ongoing service" of some kind or other and carged them for a years service in advance, and then the need for them to carry on using your services became suddenly unnessecary after a few weeks, i bet they would be threatening you with solicitors etc to refund the rest of that years fee`s. I`ve always said WRC is a big rip-off, and this just goes to prove it. There are a lot of boats on Broads brokerage websites at the moment, probably due to the turbulant financial climate, which in turn means less opportunity to sell on that mooring, so the theiving gits try and scam it out of the current mooring holder. I also wonder if they had anybody else come along asking for a mooring, they would then sell it to them forgetting to re-imburse the current mooring holder. And if questioned over it, they would then "invent" a clause stipulating that if the mooring is NOT used within 3 months, they would then have the rite to "reposess" it and sell it on. Conning gits, Just like the BA.

[Brian J.]

Idea!! Perhaps one of the forum members who is moored at the WRC could do a check now and again on Dyke mooring number 10 and if it is occupied then PM me so that I could chase WRC for the fee.

That would put a stop to any sheenanigans wouldn't it? Any takers?

Brian J.

[Matt]

Bill I think you post is bang out of order. The T&Cs are there for all to see prior to paying to moor there but yet people still moor there and in other places where this condition is included in the contract.

If you returned your hireboat halfway through your weeks hire because you "did not fancy it" would you be asking for half your money back? I doubt it.

[quo vadis]

so's this AGNB

[Guest]

Bill I think you post is bang out of order. The T&Cs are there for all to see prior to paying to moor there but yet people still moor there and in other places where this condition is included in the contract.

Quite right Matt.

That policy is the same with most of the NB mooring renters.

If you look at it from the mooring owner's point of view, when someone signs up for a year's rental, it's taken off the market, and any other enquirers get a berth elsewhere, until the next year's renewal. The number of people wanting to rent a mooring for their boat for a part year are far fewer.

[Guest]

WRC are members of The Yacht Harbour Association and members are expected to abide by the YHA code of practice http://www.tyha.co.uk/CodePractice.asp.

Within the C of P is a section on berthing agreements and, if IIRC, this includes charges and refunds.

Perhaps a call to TYHA might provide the way forward for a refund in line with their C of P?

[Dan]

If they really wanted to be horrible 'businessmen' then they would not let the berth be sold on, I'm sure there's companies that wont, so it could have been worse, and I suppose once they have let the berth if they have to refund then relet that would be a real nuisance and also be likely to cause a loss of revenue or extra expense on time and cost even if they did let it again fairly quickly.

I'm not a great fan of the ripoff Britain outlook, I think its sensible to find out a few key areas of information before you make your choice whatever you buy or sign to, or read all the terms & conditions first if you are really sensitive to any policy that protects the interests of the business. Afterall lifes not all about consumers, business have employees & many other areas to be cosidered too, however inconvenient or costly it might be to you, why should they brunt the cost? If businesses dont and just give the consumer what they want all the time so that they can only be totally exstatic all the time then ultimately the consumer gets inconvenienced when the company goes bust!

Just my thoughts....

Dan

[Guest DAYTONA-BILL]

Let`s face it, if they had to "compete" as it were, in an independant very competative market (which it is`nt), then they would be bending over backwards to offer terms and conditions to suit the customer, and not to suit themselves only, as it is at the moment. I think the best way to do it is to offer moorings is the way Set Fair has mentioned above, and that is by calculating the cost monthly. that way, the customer pays for the time occupying the berth, which is what the the marina owners get payed for. The problem with most of the broads marinas is they`re mostly run by big buisness which trade on pure greed rather than value for money. As for Dans comment about buisness is`nt always about "the customer", if all the "customers" went elsewhere, they would`nt have anyone to be able to charge their exhorbitant rates to. The reason why they get away with it is because a lot of the Broads marina operators get together to set a price, knowing you`ll be hard pressed to find a mooring any cheaper. Maybe somebody should suggest a visit by the "Monopolies comission"?, i wonder how they would react to that.?

[Dan]

Blimey Neil... I think I'll have to agree to differ on your views on this one!

All the best

Dan

[Brian J.]

As my previous posting, I was fully aware that there was a no refund policy, but that WRC were quite happy for me to sell on if I could find a buyer.

I rang them today to ask if there was a shortage of moorings, hoping that they might buy back ( even at a discounted price), but they had spare capacity, so no go. They did say they would email me if anything changed.

I have no axe to grind with WRC, they have been more than friendly and helpful with all my dealings with them.

My last post was meant to be tongue in cheek as a riposte to Bills posting.

Brian J.

[Dan]

Hi Brian

Understood... my posts were really direct replies to Neil's (DaytonaBill's) viewpoint, which I should have indicated

Dan

[Guest DAYTONA-BILL]

Blimey Neil... I think I'll have to agree to differ on your views on this one!

All the best

Dan

I hope you did`nt take offence Dan, as it certainly was`nt meant like that, so if it did, i do apollogise. Unfortunately, i`ve seen all too often how big buisness ruins things in this country, but the bosses always walk away with millions of pounds in payouts. It`s the reason why i`m ALWAYS more than suspicious about all the wonderful headlines about how things will be better for the consumer, when in truth, the consumer or customer is always worse off. WRC used to be a lovely place until the Funnell group took it over, but now it`s an overpriced over developed blot on the riverside (as i`ve said before in other threads), and it`s been done by money, to make more money and stuff the public.

[Dan]

No offence Neil, different views make the world (and forums!) go round, life would be very dull if we all thought the same.

...... WRC used to be a lovely place until the Funnell group took it over, but now it`s an overpriced over developed blot on the riverside (as i`ve said before in other threads), and it`s been done by money, to make more money and stuff the public.

I'm sure they'll be many who dont see the place in the way you see it, it wouldn't be a viable, successful business otherwise (which does bring many strong, good points to some users of different viewpoint).... what would be there now if a growing (though hardly monster, supersized operation in the grand scale of things) hadn't taken it on & invested heavily?

Dan

[wayneakp]

When it come business arrangements I have always found James at WRC to be fair and reasonable with me. I have renewed my mooring with them this year. I cant however say the same for BA

[Guest DAYTONA-BILL]

No offence Neil, different views make the world (and forums!) go round, life would be very dull if we all thought the same.

I'm sure they'll be many who dont see the place in the way you see it, it wouldn't be a viable, successful business otherwise (which does bring many strong, good points to some users of different viewpoint).... what would be there now if a growing (though hardly monster, supersized operation in the grand scale of things) hadn't taken it on & invested heavily?

Dan

Hi Dan, it would probably be just slightly different than the way it was 20 years ago, which was the way i like it. Nice and peaceful, and not intrusive to the riverside. It was also a lot cheaper (in percentage terms) which also used to get used by a lot more people. I can always remember when the place was full, but these days whenever we go past, it`s always nearly empty, and by that i`m talking about overnight visitors and NOT berth holders.

[Guest]

No replies from "Eddie the Fish" so far on this one....

At the end of the day, a business is there to make a profit, and as long as they do not have a monopoly, the customers can always complain by taking there business elsewhere. They're primary purpose is not to just be a benefit to boaters, but to make money, providing a service that people will be willing to pay for.

Since James still has plenty of customers, albeit not actually full up, it would appear that he is not over charging.

Brian has said that despite not being able to get a refund (so far), he's quite satisfied with his dealings with the company.

[Hockham Admiral]

Let`s face it, if they had to "compete" as it were, in an independant very competative market (which it is`nt), then they would be bending over backwards to offer terms and conditions to suit the customer, and not to suit themselves only, as it is at the moment. I think the best way to do it is to offer moorings is the way Set Fair has mentioned above, and that is by calculating the cost monthly. that way, the customer pays for the time occupying the berth, which is what the the marina owners get payed for. The problem with most of the broads marinas is they`re mostly run by big buisness which trade on pure greed rather than value for money. As for Dans comment about buisness is`nt always about "the customer", if all the "customers" went elsewhere, they would`nt have anyone to be able to charge their exhorbitant rates to. The reason why they get away with it is because a lot of the Broads marina operators get together to set a price, knowing you`ll be hard pressed to find a mooring any cheaper. Maybe somebody should suggest a visit by the "Monopolies comission"?, i wonder how they would react to that.?

Neil, Hi

I don't think that's quite fair as we researched several marinas when we moved earlier this year. The prices varied by up to £400/year and we chose the WRC, which was the most expensive, because of the ambience and facilities available. James even threw in a month's free mooring and offered us the choice of two moorings as of last Friday. We chose the one which suited us better!

It is also of interest to read clause 10.1 of the Yacht Harbour Association's Code of practice:

Clause 10.1:

•

This termination clause was drafted to comply with an Office of Fair Trading (OFT) requirement that berth holders who had paid in advance for annual contracts should be able to cancel their contracts on 16 weeks’ written notice and receive a refund of the fees already paid for the unspent part of the year.

•

This could have been abused by berth holders who could take unfair advantage of discounts which would not otherwise have been available to them for the period during which they stayed, or who could occupy the berth during the best months of the year, and then leave at the time when the berth would be difficult to re-let. This clause attempts to minimize the loss to the marina, whilst complying with the requirement of the OFT that contracts be terminable on 16 weeks’ notice.

•

Although a refund must be made, when calculating the sum that must be refunded, the marina is entitled to re-calculate the fee that would otherwise have been due for the period that the berth was occupied, taking into consideration the fact that the best months of the year are more expensive than the less popular months.

I also can't agree that it's an " overpriced over developed blot on the riverside (as i`ve said before in other threads). Personally I like the place and find it much nicer now that those dratted geese have been "disappeared"!

[Guest]

[

It is also of interest to read clause 10.1 of the Yacht Harbour Association's Code of practice:

Although a refund must be made, when calculating the sum that must be refunded, the marina is entitled to re-calculate the fee that would otherwise have been due for the period that the berth was occupied, taking into consideration the fact that the best months of the year are more expensive than the less popular months.

And there lies the rub. It's obvious that it's not just WRC offering a no refund policy My next few words are no way directed at WRC but to all of those that do not offer refunds.

You buy car tax, home insurance, boat insurance etc. and if, for whatever reason, you terminate your 12 month contract, you at least get something back. If you take a look at the big marina operators such as MDL, Premier and Tingdene, all offer some sort of refund. Ok, you may not get a lot back and you will get stitched for having to go onto monthly terms but it's the principle that's in question here now we've gone off topic. In addition, MDL offer a system whereby you can suspend your annual mooring fees if you sell the boat but know you'll be back within 12 months with another boat. No, you don't get anything back but you avoid going onto monthly terms and the suspended money is put towards your new future berth.

Just my few penneth

[senator]

As to preferring somewhere nice and peaceful what is wrong with the other 120 miles? IMHO WRC is a great facility for family's as a stop to give the little ones a change and a very convenient place to pick up supply's, enjoy a swim, a meal and drink in a very nice family friendly pub.

Moorings, I can totally understand the no refund policy, even if they could let it again straight away it is going to cost them a months moorings but as most people want a mooring for the year unless they are really lucky people looking to move will have already selected and paid for their moorings, as has been said they still have spaces so have room for someone wanting a berth mid season. Maybe if they can let the berth for an annual fee during the time you have paid for a refund for the occupied time would be fair but even then it would move the renewal out of line with when most people are looking.

Whatever may be thought the very fact that there are vacant berths available at this time of year shows that it IS a competitive market place and it is up to individual businesses to decide how they offer their moorings, if they choose to offer terms that are different and worse than others they will soon find an empty marina.