Toll Comparisons

webntweb · February 26, 2021

Trapped in the house with little to do, I thought I would compare Broads motor cruiser tolls with other waterways.

Working on a 40ft x 10ft 3in motor cruiser. (10ft 3in beam is the widest that can navigate the whole of the Gt Ouse system).

Norfolk Broads (21-22) £552.50 for 125+ navigable miles.

River Thames (20-21) £832 for 125 navigable miles.

Canal (21-22) £858.50 for approx 160* navigable miles. *Grand Union, Regent's canal, Hertford Union and Rivers Lea and Stort - This is the longest connected length of C&RT waterways that can be navigated without going out to sea - there is a headroom pinch point of 6ft 3" on this route.

The Leeds & Liverpool (127m) and the South Yorkshire waterways give a longer connected wide beam length but the SY are commercial waterways.

Great Ouse system (20-21) £756 for 140 navigable miles - it would be the same price if your motor cruiser was only 33ft long.

Cost wise the Broads seem to compare very favourably with all the other waterways especially as the Thames and Ouse rates are last years.

Cheesey69 · February 26, 2021

The canals have vast stretches of tow path to moor on.

Free toilet facilities and provided water points. To be honest, based on my experience, Canals are very much better but then again, most canals run near services.

canals have more infrastructure to maintain.

But i think the canal trust gets a hand out from government.

Its a close run thing but I guess the canals focus is on the boats because the canals was built for the boats rather than everyone else.

JennyMorgan · February 26, 2021

44 minutes ago, Cheesey69 said:

The canals have vast stretches of tow path to moor on.

Free toilet facilities and provided water points. To be honest, based on my experience, Canals are very much better but then again, most canals run near services.

canals have more infrastructure to maintain.

But i think the canal trust gets a hand out from government.

Its a close run thing but I guess the canals focus is on the boats because the canals was built for the boats rather than everyone else.

If it wasn't for commercial boating, wherries and lighters, I don't suppose the Broads would be what it is today. Perhaps not created for boats but certainly dredged and in many cases, adapted for boats.

rightsaidfred · February 26, 2021

4 hours ago, webntweb said:

Trapped in the house with little to do, I thought I would compare Broads motor cruiser tolls with other waterways.

Working on a 40ft x 10ft 3in motor cruiser. (10ft 3in beam is the widest that can navigate the whole of the Gt Ouse system).

Norfolk Broads (21-22) £552.50 for 125+ navigable miles.

River Thames (20-21) £832 for 125 navigable miles.

Canal (21-22) £858.50 for approx 160* navigable miles. *Grand Union, Regent's canal, Hertford Union and Rivers Lea and Stort - This is the longest connected length of C&RT waterways that can be navigated without going out to sea - there is a headroom pinch point of 6ft 3" on this route.

The Leeds & Liverpool (127m) and the South Yorkshire waterways give a longer connected wide beam length but the SY are commercial waterways.

Great Ouse system (20-21) £756 for 140 navigable miles - it would be the same price if your motor cruiser was only 33ft long.

Cost wise the Broads seem to compare very favourably with all the other waterways especially as the Thames and Ouse rates are last years.

This is not strictly true as you can connect to the Grand Union canal from the Lea, Regents canal and Thames, however if you saw the state of the C&RT waters in London and the Lea you wouldnt complain about the way the Broads are managed let alone the cost of tolls.

Fred

Cheesey69 · February 26, 2021

47 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

If it wasn't for commercial boating, wherries and lighters, I don't suppose the Broads would be what it is today. Perhaps not created for boats but certainly dredged and in many cases, adapted for boats.

Yes your right.

What I meant was that the canals are obviously man made rather than man made blending over time into a false natural state.

Then you don't get some shredded wheat vest wearing geezer in your face when you move a sign post to "Little Dribble" two inches to the right because a water rat named Tony wants to watch Man united versus Driveshaft FC on the box.

floydraser · February 26, 2021

A brave debate to start but I think there could be various comparisons to make your own favourite look the best for whatever reason. I don't think the cost vs navigable length has a lot of value as a debate as it's not always a high priority when buying a boat. But I have attached the tolls for 2020-22 and it shows that the example boat would only cost £511 for a rivers only licence which would then be the only price on the comparison which is below the broads cost. Unless I am wrong of course and it wouldn't be the first time!

The comparison would have more value if the majority of owners used most of the mileage most of the time. With a rivers only licence, upgrading to use all the canal network (for a narrower boat of course) for 12 months is easily done.

Then there's travel: as the toll is for the user then it's value compares to overall cost of the boating experience. For instance, a rivers only licence for me would make more economic sense than the Broads because for start the toll is cheaper and so would be the travelling.

43152-long-term-boat-licence-fee-table-for-2021-2022.pdf

JennyMorgan · February 26, 2021

For most folk their season is 26 weeks so for usable weeks so to speak a £500.00 toll is twenty pounds a week, if you get my drift! Anyway, that aside, the costs of maintaining both the canal system and The Thames must surely be much higher than the Broads. For example both the Thames and the canals have numerous locks, the Broads has just one which we pay an additional charge to be able to use. All the Broads bridges are paid for by outside agencies, unlike a large proportion of canal bridges. Apart from being wet there is little to make a direct comparison with.

marshman · February 26, 2021

But how can you get from one river to another without using the canals??? You would have to stay on just one section perhaps? I know a few are joined up but not all by any means!!

JennyMorgan · February 26, 2021

31 minutes ago, marshman said:

But how can you get from one river to another without using the canals???

The same applies to the Broads, not everyone can transit all the rivers simply because of the low bridges and sometimes, like the canals, beam restrictions.

rightsaidfred · February 26, 2021

3 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

For most folk their season is 26 weeks so for usable weeks so to speak a £500.00 toll is twenty pounds a week, if you get my drift! Anyway, that aside, the costs of maintaining both the canal system and The Thames must surely be much higher than the Broads. For example both the Thames and the canals have numerous locks, the Broads has just one which we pay an additional charge to be able to use. All the Broads bridges are paid for by outside agencies, unlike a large proportion of canal bridges. Apart from being wet there is little to make a direct comparison with.

I dont think there is a great deal if any dredging carried out on most canals or rivers, nor free 24 hour moorings to lease or maintain, swings and roundabouts come to mind.

Fred

floydraser · February 27, 2021

5 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

For most folk their season is 26 weeks so for usable weeks so to speak a £500.00 toll is twenty pounds a week, if you get my drift!

When I was considering buying a boat, that was something like my thinking, similar to my touring caravan use - fine weather only. However, my first very pleasant surprise was the fact that a lot of boat owners get to use their boats all year round. There's always plenty of folk around the marina and always boats on the Yare passing by, what ever time of year. I can't see why that shouldn't be the case on the canals and rivers too; having forked out for 12 months use in tolls, moorings etc, we want to get the most useage we can. I see it as a tenner a week.

Of course if you sail a flappy with no cabin, yep 26 weeks and hope it doesn't rain.... :default_sailing: :default_biggrin: :default_hiding: