Help And Advice Please.

[ExSurveyor]

Getting stuck in to sorting out the Sheerline 740. Now known as White Knight.

First question, any idea what this is for and can I get rid of it. It has a threaded cap with a large screw inside that wasn't fully tightened down causing a small leak from the outlet. It is a fairly basic water system. I need to replace the water pump as it is noisy and also leaking so can remove this at the same time.

 

My second problem is with the manual pump toilet. It pumps out ok but doesn't pump water in. It is river fed and I have opened the valve but no luck. Cooking oil has been flushed through.

Before I change the pump handle assembly is there anything else I should do.

Thanks.

[OldBerkshireBoy]

The brass item in the first photo looks like an auto air vent to me but I stand to be corrected. It being there suggests air lock problems in the past.

[PaulN]

39 minutes ago, ExSurveyor said:

Getting stuck in to sorting out the Sheerline 740. Now known as White Knight.

First question, any idea what this is for and can I get rid of it. It has a threaded cap with a large screw inside that wasn't fully tightened down causing a small leak from the outlet. It is a fairly basic water system. I need to replace the water pump as it is noisy and also leaking so can remove this at the same time.

 

My second problem is with the manual pump toilet. It pumps out ok but doesn't pump water in. It is river fed and I have opened the valve but no luck. Cooking oil has been flushed through.

Before I change the pump handle assembly is there anything else I should do.

Thanks.

I had a similar Jabsco toilet on a previous boat. From memory there is a flap weighted rubber valve inside the pump mechanism. A service kit consisting of these valve and gaskets can be purchased, which should solve the problem.

Suggest you identify which Jabsco type it is and get the service kit. Hope this helps.

https://www.asap-supplies.com/search?query=jabsco+toilet+service+kit 

[Smoggy]

Pic 1 looks like a blanked off spare outlet to me that can be junked with a new length of hose or a straight connector depending on hose length, as for the bog they re very simple, if the incoming flap isn't fully closed by the lever beside it they won't pump water in, I have a similar thing but jonson pum bog in my garage spare if you want it, mine is a large bowl version.

[MargeandParge]

11 minutes ago, Smoggy said:

Pic 1 looks like a blanked off spare outlet to me that can be junked with a new length of hose or a straight connector depending on hose length, as for the bog they re very simple, if the incoming flap isn't fully closed by the lever beside it they won't pump water in, I have a similar thing but jonson pum bog in my garage spare if you want it, mine is a large bowl version.

Sorry Smoggy but not everyone needs the large bowl version. kindest Regards Marge and Parge 

[ExSurveyor]

Thanks Smoggy, I will fit a replacement assembly rather than replace the toilet, it looks like the original unit, I just didn't want to replace it if I was missing something obvious.  Brian Wards have stock for that and the pump

The boat had elderly owners who couldn't keep up the maintenance, the engine was serviced every year but things like water leaks, lights and heating were all neglected.

The window frames had more moss in the runners than a hanging basket.

The list is growing faster than I can get jobs ticked off. So much for a restful break.

[ExSurveyor]

18 minutes ago, Smoggy said:

Pic 1 looks like a blanked off spare outlet to me

I thought that but the outlet isn't threaded internally or externally.

[Smoggy]

The johnson pump version is pretty much a copy of the jabsco, It's still in my garage 'cos my ar5e aint that big either, I believe the bowls are fully interchangeable even with the old RM69, I've done that swap with mine as the pump handle had broken and the knackered spare I got given had a better bowl and seat and the base is the same, I now have a cast aluminium handle courtesy of a guy I worked with playing at casting (it's made from a lycoming piston).

Back to pic 1, it looks like it's just what fittings were to hand to sort a problem and blank it off, been there and done that.

[Vaughan]

Pic 1 is a pressure relief valve and the screw inside the cap is to adjust the pressure setting. It prevents the danger of a modern water pump with its own pressure cut off switch, being powerful enough to inflate a copper calorifier tank. Best leave it in place - it does no harm!

[ExSurveyor]

Thanks Vaughan, should I leave it slightly open as it was, although it was dripping slightly when the pump was on or close it right down.

I will need to check the calorifier on the other side of the boat to see if it has a pressure relief valve 

[floydraser]

The toilet inlet could be blocked, probably with seeds from the trees and dead spiders. 

But seriously, I had to clean out my weed filter quite regularly when I was there.

[Vaughan]

3 hours ago, ExSurveyor said:

I will need to check the calorifier on the other side of the boat to see if it has a pressure relief valve 

If the calorifier has a PRV this is more normal.

It is a very simple affair inside, with a spring which holds down a valve.  If it is dripping it may have got furred up with calcium, in which case unscrew the spring, take out the valve and clean it.

It is difficult to set the pressure unless there is a gauge somewhere in the line, but it should be set at a bit more than the pump cut-off pressure, to protect against a failure of the pump pressure switch.

If these modern pumps keep pumping, they are powerful enough to start bursting water pipes and tanks.

The good old Stuart Turner type is a turbine pump, which agitates the water rather than physically shifting it with a diaphragm or impeller, so it will only pump up to a certain pressure but no more.  Only problem then, is that if the batteries are low, the Stuart pump can't build up enough pressure to cut off, so it just flattens the batteries.  This is largely why they have been replaced with the diaphragm type.

[Vaughan]

4 hours ago, Vaughan said:

If the calorifier has a PRV this is more normal.

Just thinking a bit more about this, the PRV on the calorifier is there in case the tank boils if the engine is overheated.

So the PRV at the water pump would not protect against boiling as there should be a non return valve (NRV) on the cold feed to the calorifier tank.

On the other hand if you have a PRV on the hot tank, then the one at the pump end would be superfluous.  No harm in leaving it there, though!

[Vaughan]

And thinking a bit more . . . . 

If you keep it there, fit its outlet with a pipe to drain down into the bilge.  That way, it won't rot the floor in the engine compartment!

[Tobster]

18 hours ago, ExSurveyor said:

Getting stuck in to sorting out the Sheerline 740. Now known as White Knight.

First question, any idea what this is for and can I get rid of it. It has a threaded cap with a large screw inside that wasn't fully tightened down causing a small leak from the outlet. It is a fairly basic water system. I need to replace the water pump as it is noisy and also leaking so can remove this at the same time.

 

My second problem is with the manual pump toilet. It pumps out ok but doesn't pump water in. It is river fed and I have opened the valve but no luck. Cooking oil has been flushed through.

Before I change the pump handle assembly is there anything else I should do.

Thanks.

My Bayliner has the same toilet and there is a second valve in the bilge on the water inlet, it is recommended that this is closed when you leave the boat for long periods, to prevent water coming in via the toilet.

it maybe worth checking to see if it’s the same on yours.

[annv]

Hi As Vaughan said plus it's good practice to fit a pressure tank/Diaphragm tank in the outlet side of the pump to stop it cycling when tap is only slightly open, this also has a plus side as at night there is enough pressure to run a tap to rinse your hands without pump running. John

[ExSurveyor]

Turns out the brass fitting is a pressure relief valve. I took it apart and found a spring and a small disc. I cleaned it up and refitted it.  The pump is replaced and all leaks fixed.

Having refilled the water tank and switched the pump on I checked the calorifier under the bench on the other side. Four pipes, four small leaks. I managed to fix three by tightening the Jubilee clips and tweaking the fitting up a bit. The fourth one wouldn't stop leaking so I decided to take it off and remake it. Trouble is it decided to sheer off the calorifier outlet fitting. The calorifier is probably past it's best, it isn't factory insulated and is showing signs of rusting. Looks like I will be fitting a new unit. That wasn't in the plan. I might stop off the domestic connections and connect the engine pipes together as a temporary measure until I come back up.

Tomorrow will be turning my much under rated skills to the toilet pump replacement, lowering the bilge float and changing the gas regulator. Turns out the Flogas regulators changed and the refill bottle doesn't fit the old regulator.

 

Edit

Blimey, I have just seen the price of calorifier.

[Vaughan]

You don't mention if the hot tank had a PRV.  If you are buying a new tank make sure to fit one, on the hot water outlet. Sounds as though your system may have seen a few years, so make sure also that you have a NRV on the cold water feed to the calorifier.

[ExSurveyor]

36 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

You don't mention if the hot tank had a PRV.

No, nothing fitted other than the brass one on the exit of the pump.

Given the cost of a new calorifier I will remove the old one and take it home to see if I can get the remains of the threaded fitting out of the outlet fitting, I am not very hopeful.

[Vaughan]

It sounds as though whoever installed the plumbing has mistakenly put the PRV in the wrong place.  I confess I can't remember seeing one there before.

Your system should have :

An inline filter between the fresh water tank and the pump.

After the pump will be some sort of pressure vessel.

There will also be a pressure switch, probably called a "Square D".

If your pump is a new type with its own pressure switch, you don't need the Square D and you can't have both.

From there, are the feeds to the cold taps and one feed to the bottom of the calorifier. It is on this last feed that there must be a NRV.

The calorifier must also have a PRV on the hot water outlet, ideally drained out through a hull skin fitting, if not, into the bilge.

Modern automatic pressurised systems mean that there is a danger when turning on a cold tap, that the hot water runs backwards out of the calorifier and you can easily get scalded by turning on a cold tap! The NRV in the line will prevent this happening. This is, of course, very important if you have grand-children on board.

 

[Smoggy]

Look at surecal calorifiers, they come with prv, fittings, thermostatic valve, and immersion heater with push fit type outlets.

I have one to fit in mine due to a prolapse of the old one from when I upgraded the pressure.