hire craft fuel

[VetChugger]

At the moment Brooms are £1.28, WRC £1.25, Richardsons and Woods are both at £1.40. The hire yards do charge significantly more! These included the 60/40 split.

Trevor

http://www.normanboats.co.uk

[kfurbank]

Boulters were £1.15 on Sunday the 8th April.

John, was that Friday G I saw receiving some treatment in the paint shed?

[Hockham Admiral]

Boulters were £1.15 on Sunday the 8th April.

John, was that Friday G I saw receiving some treatment in the paint shed?

It was.....................

[Hockham Admiral]

If you have only just returned from a trip I think you may have needed the warm air running for at least some of the day/night, if that was the case you should have got the fuel at the 60/40 price.

All fuel is sold at that split, regardless of where you buy it on the Broads.... unless you are prepared to declare differently...

So if you just sit on the boat for a week in the yard then you could legally demand fuel at only 5% VAT and NO road fuel supplement

[littlesprite]

If £1.60 is a 60/40 split then I'm Prince Charles.

[Hockham Admiral]

We've literally just returned from a wonderful week on the Broads, managed to cover just about all of them in the boat we hired from Le Boat, it was an 13.6m Emperor, we used 124 ltrs of fuel, but what shocked me was that they charged us £1.60 per litre, and when I queried the price they just blamed taxation and the rising costs, they did however advise us to write a letter of complaint to head office, as they set the price.!

If you'd read my post earlier in this thread :

e: hire craft fuel

by Hockham Admiral » 01 Apr 2012, 10:09

Thanks for that; I'll top up there later this week.

And as an aside, I recollect that a nearby yard was charging £1.65 last year.....

It was them I was talking about and you would have saved yourselves £55.

[Hockham Admiral]

If £1.60 is a 60/40 split then I'm Prince Charles.

Of course it isn't... they're just profiteering...

[Stranger]

Daylight Robbery at 1.60 a litre disgusting

we use red at work and we are just buying 600 litres for our small tank at 79p a litre

[Guest DAYTONA-BILL]

Daylight Robbery at 1.60 a litre disgusting

we use red at work and we are just buying 600 litres for our small tank at 79p a litre

What a shame your company does`nt have a supply on the Broads Dave .

[Guest DAYTONA-BILL]

Just a point, does anybody know if there`s anything in the hire contracts to say whether you`re allowed to fill up in any boatyard that IS`NT a member of the Broads hireboat federation?.

[C.Ricko]

Neil, you can do whatever you want as long as it is either full or you pay for it to be filled when you get back.

It does not really matter a toss how much you pay for red as it is the duty which WE have to pay on top plus the VAT which adds up. I have just spent £10k on new fuel pumps this year (same as last year) I do know that there are some yards who do not have mesured pumps and perhaps others do not declare the duty but we do and there are costs involved.

please look at the overall cost of a holiday including the hire charge, insurance/ waiver, fuel etc before being clever about how to save yourself a tenner.

but as always you must do whatever suits you.

[Hockham Admiral]

Clive, Hi

I'm not trying to be pedantic but if you can fill up at 45p/litre cheaper within a very short distance from your hire-yard then it must make sense to do so.

Regardless of any other considerations.

[C.Ricko]

We are currently at 140p I am not sure you can get it for 95p but if you can then fair enough unless you are talking about a yard which charges 160p (who also charge £60 to clean your boat) but that is how their sums add up.

when you bring a boat back at the end of your holiday, no time is lost while refuelling as it is very quick and most people are unloading at the same time, we have more than one pump, plenty of people available and dont have to move boats to fit you in,

I better not argue this point any further as I know more than I ought to post

can you please now discuss how much cheaper/better value like for like boats are from us Vs other yards

[Matt]

I have filled up at Boulters before and still do occasionally but it can be a real bugger to get into sometimes, particularly if somebody else is already at the pump.

I often just use Ferry Marina for ease and last time found them not much more expensive than Boulters and or a few extra quid far easier!

[Ronski]

Thanks for all your replies.

Just tried to phone Goodchilds but went to the answer phone, are they usually open on a Saturday morning?

Looking at the receipt's I've got for the fuel and the initial fuel deposit, they both show I've been charged VAT at 20%, no discounted rates, seems Le Boat are ripping off their customers!

C.Ricko, who do you work for out of curiosity? Le Boats cleaning charge is £100, needless to say we left the boat spot less, and we would have done even if it was free.

I fully appreciate equipment costs, I run a commercial vehicle workshop so know all about costs of equipment, but I don't expect to be ripped off, I expect to pay a fair price. I wonder if their pump is actually calibrated for the sale of fuel?

[C.Ricko]

Thanks for all your replies.

Just tried to phone Goodchilds but went to the answer phone, are they usually open on a Saturday morning?

Looking at the receipt's I've got for the fuel and the initial fuel deposit, they both show I've been charged VAT at 20%, no discounted rates, seems Le Boat are ripping off their customers!

C.Ricko, who do you work for out of curiosity? Le Boats cleaning charge is £100, needless to say we left the boat spot less, and we would have done even if it was free.

I fully appreciate equipment costs, I run a commercial vehicle workshop so know all about costs of equipment, but I don't expect to be ripped off, I expect to pay a fair price. I wonder if their pump is actually calibrated for the sale of fuel?

Richardsons

I suspect all pumps are calibrated by weights and measures if they are known by HMRC.

you have to look at the overall cost and weigh it up against how far you have been and if the boat is good value etc.

[Hockham Admiral]

Clive, I was talking about the £1.60/£1.15 split, not yours, mate.

Ron, GCM are closed Sat/Sun.

VAT on fuel is 5%...NOT 20%!

[Ronski]

you have to look at the overall cost and weigh it up against how far you have been and if the boat is good value etc.

I don't agree, we paid to hire the boat, the cost of that is what makes the boat good value or not. If you hire a car do you expect to pay over the odds for the fuel you use (per litre) simply because you travelled a long distance and the car was nice and comfortable?

VAT on fuel is 5%...NOT 20%!

Thanks, can you clarify what duty I should be paying on the 60% and the 40%.

We used 124 litres so how much tax should there be on the 74.4ltrs (the 60%) and on 49.6ltrs (the 40%)

My receipt clearly shows VAT at 20% on the full amount.

[kfurbank]

Quote "you have to look at the overall cost and weigh it up against how far you have been and if the boat is good value etc."

Which is possibly fair comment if you are hiring, although I'm still not convinced. What happened to transparent pricing? By this I mean if you are suggesting that a lower initial boat hire price is being subsidised by a higher fuel charge, it makes it harder for people to compare like for like. As has already been suggested it would make sense in this case to shop around for the cheapest hire, and then shop around for the cheapest fuel and get the best of both worlds. I suspect most won't want the hassle and won't.

What is the price per litre for privateers? If your fuel price subsidises lower hire charges, then what do you charge private boaters who obviousely are not benefitting from your lower hire charges

I do know of at least one marina on the South which has different rates for its berth holders and a different one for everyone else, be they hire or private visitors.

Personally I would have thought that fuel prices would be very much driven by volume of sales as it is on the road, and therefore never understand why some of those with the highest turnover of fuel aren't the cheapest around.

I use somewhere in the region of 500 litres per year and given the extremes quoted on here £1.15 vs £1.60 I can save myself £225 per year or an extra 450 miles cruising per year, which is a no brainer When buying fuel I tend to look for somewhere that 1. has a high turnover of fuel, hopefully leading to a better quality of fuel, and 2. As close as possible to the lower end of the pricing. I tend to use 3 or 4 different places depending on when I need to fill up and who is closest, all of which meet both of my criteria, and two of those places also have the shiney new fuel pumps too although I would be surprised if they sell more, or much more than the bigger hire yards.

Finally and I am not pointing the finger at anyone here, but The Broads are not immune to the weights and measures act. Anyone selling fuel can be reported to trading standards and they have a responsibility to ensure their equipment, however antiquated is calibrated.

[Hockham Admiral]

Thanks, can you clarify what duty I should be paying on the 60% and the 40%.

We used 124 litres so how much tax should there be on the 74.4ltrs (the 60%) and on 49.6ltrs (the 40%)

My receipt clearly shows VAT at 20% on the full amount.

Here's how you can work it out..

Charging Duty and VAT

The following is a guide to the calculation of duty and VAT under the new arrangements for illustration only. The proportion split between propulsion and domestic usage will vary.

VAT is charged at the reduced rate of 5% on fuel for propulsion and domestic use.

This example assumes a 60% (propulsion) and 40% (domestic) split for a purchase of 100 litres of red diesel (the price of diesel is assumed to be 0.70ppl which includes 9.69 ppl duty already paid to fuel supplier):

Propulsion calculation (ie 60 per cent)

60 litres @ 0.70ppl = £42

60 litres @ 0.4066 = £24.40 (additional duty)

VAT @ 5% = £3.32

Propulsion Total = £69.72

Domestic calculation (ie 40 per cent)

40 litres @ 0.70ppl = £28

VAT @ 5% = £1.40

Domestic Total = £29.40

Transaction Total = £99.12

Definition of Private Pleasure Craft

The definition of 'private pleasure craft' is as in the Energy Products Directive:

‘private pleasure craft shall mean any craft used by its owner or the natural or legal person who enjoys its use either though hire or through any other means, for other than commercial purposes and in particular other than for the carriage of passengers or goods or for the supply of services for consideration or for the purposes of public authorities.’

All forms will be available on our website http://www.hmrc.gov.uk or from the National Advice Service on 0845 010 9000

That's directly from the RBOA http://www.rboa.org.uk/diesel4

[Guest DAYTONA-BILL]

can you please now discuss how much cheaper/better value like for like boats are from us Vs other yards

I`ve done better than that Clive, i`ve recommended you to a colleague at work. He said he`d often thought about a Broads holiday, especially for the fishing, so i`ve recommended you to him. They`ve never been boating before, so my recommendation was based on the very wide choice of boats in size and style and price, as well as the reviews of several people on this forum.

I know at times, i`ve voiced some sometimes strong and opposite opinions to you on the forum, but i`ve always believed Richardsons have improved their fleet and servisces in recent times, and am more than happy to recommend Richardsons (as well as others) to anybody, as you can offer excellent value for money, or exceptional quality.

[Ronski]

Here's how you can work it out.........

Thanks for that, so there's 40.66p additional duty on the part used for propulsion, then 5% vat applied to the lot (I love the way you pay VAT on tax, as per road fuel!)

So I gather from previous replies most yards would quote their fuel based on the 60/40 split with tax all in, so Le Boat are quite clearly charging incorrectly with vat at 20% and their price is amongst the highest on the broads.

I'll far off an email to them and see what they have to say for themselves, and I'll post the reply here.

[donnygeoff]

Just got back,

Hired from Rico's ( Princess)

Missed the tide at Yarmouth, so had to go across Breydon against the ebb, full throttle (sat nav showing 2.8mph) all the way to WRC so againsrt tide most of the way.

Now, we got back to the Yard, and when re-filling I thought not much cange from my £130.00 deposit will be coming back after all of the cruising we had done (10 hours on Sunday (this didn't include the 2 hour stop at Yarmouth) from Ludham to WRC)

Any way Fuel used for week £70.84 refund given £59.16, I am well happy

[Guest DAYTONA-BILL]

That`s good Geoffers. I know you had a great time, but what was the boat and the weather like?

[Guest DAYTONA-BILL]

I forgot to say

19 more sleeps for Karen and me, 20 for Dave and April