Electricians

[VetChugger]

I've been looking at the ad for CT Electricians but can see no reference to undertaking 12/24v work on boats. Anyone know any different? Failing that, anyone have a strong recommendation for a marine electrician who will cover Brundall?

 

 

Trevor

 

[diesel falcon]

Give Col a pm (happyjacks ) he is ct elecrician s sure he,d be interested,

[MBA Marine]

Im 'fairly' competent! 

Are you at Brundall Gardens? as I believe they are trying to keep all work in house now.

[VetChugger]

I am at Brundall Gardens but, to my knowledge, they don't have an electrician. They have not yet really got the work side set up yet apart from lifts and anti fouling. Engineer has not yet started full time down there  either.

 

Trevor

[quo vadis]

Give NBA a try then let us know how you get on

[Hockham Admiral]

Trevor, Hi

 

CT is Colin Thorne, aka Happy Jax3, and he is happy working on boats. If you click on his ad you will see that he has all the necessary qualifications to do any electrical work and to certify it. He covers all the Broads.

 

He has already done work for us on our shore power supply, when he fitted a galvanic isolator in the 230V mains earth lead. He has also wired in 12V auxiliary socket. The workmanship was top-class and he even insisted on cleaning up afterwards!

 

He is also offering 20% discount to Members and you can't say fairer than that!

[Oddfellow]

There are specific regulations for the wiring of 230v mains on boats which cover the kind of cable to be used, the supporting of the cable (ideally in condiut), labelling and so on.

 

I have been on the electric installion course run by the British Marine Federation and have the certificate.

 

As we're looking to extensively expand the amount of private work we carry out at Kingfisher, we'd be pleased to provide a estimate for this work (and any other) too.

[ranworthbreeze]

Hello Andy,

 

I have not read the regulations regarding 230/240 volt and 12 or 24 DC installations in boats but I would assume with regards to the mains wiring that conduit or trunking is a must and the wiring would have to conform to heat and chemical environment regulations as in the use of fire & emergency lighting wiring, with allowences made for the movement of the cabling due to vibration within engine bays.

 

Regards

Alan

[VetChugger]

Thanks for the responses folks. My problem stems from the simple death of a battery charger. Having said that, I had lots of extra stuff added to Glenmore when I bought her such as emersion heaters, invertor, tube heaters and 240v ring main. I'll not say who did the work but it all seems a tad wierd in that when using the 240 supply two fan heaters trip out the invertor and, oddly, the whole supply!

So, before simply replacing ther charger I want someone experienced to have a peek at the installation and give an opinion.

 

 

Trevor

[Hockham Admiral]

I have a spare good quality charger for sale, Trevor.

[ranworthbreeze]

Hello Trevor,

It is hardly surprising that the two fan heaters would trip out the inverter, I do not know what your rating is for the inverter but a 1 or 2KW is quite large in boating terms on private boats, but a heater fan would be a minimum of 1KW but more than likely a 2 or 3KW heater likewise a microwave oven minimum of 2KW.

Regards

Alan

[Matt]

But they should work on shore power without the inverter?

[MBA Marine]

But they should work on shore power without the inverter?

no two fan heaters should trip his breaker, I would expect the sockets in the  boat to be on a 16A breaker(s) possibly less but not more, your house would have 32A for a ring main, but with a boat most shore cables are 2.5mm (some are bigger) but basically is a extension lead, so what the boat can draw through it is restricted. 

[littlesprite]

Are you trying to run the heaters, plus lights, plus Tv, it will always cause a problem.

 

16 amp circuit on 230 volt mains  =  16 x 230 = watts. so 3.68 kw would be the maximum allowed before a trip, allowing for a safety margin I would  look at 3 kw as a maximum for safe operation.

 

As for a microwave oven you could use one, a 700 watt microwave will draw about 1200 watts.

[VetChugger]

You miss my point. I'm puzzled why the direct 240 supply is not independent of the invertor??? Maybe I should have made it clear that I only tried to run two heaters whilst hooked up to shore power.

 

Trevor

[VetChugger]

I think they are both 2kw. I know that exceeds the capacity of the invertor but should not the shore supply be independent of the invertor?

 

 

Trevor

[Hockham Admiral]

You miss my point. I'm puzzled why the direct 240 supply is not independent of the invertor??? Maybe I should have made it clear that I only tried to run two heaters whilst hooked up to shore power.

 

Trevor

Trevor, Hi

 

The 240V shore power will be independent of the invertor if it has been wired in correctly.

 

When you connect the shore power it should change a relay over which then allows the shore power to supply your ring main. If this relay isn't working then of course you will trip something because you can't have two alternating current supplies onto on ring (unless you can get them in phase first)... one or the other will trip out.

 

This was happening on our boat when we started the 42Amp diesel generator and were plugged into shore power..(It was designed so that the genny would have priority if I was daft enough to try to run both supplies simultaneously). 

 

Col (CT Electricians) brought out his box of tricks and sorted the relay problem out for us.

 

Hope this helps, because if you substitute your invertor for our genny it's the same thing.

[Oddfellow]

Yes, plus there are mininum distances between low voltage and mains cables.

Hello Andy,

 

I have not read the regulations regarding 230/240 volt and 12 or 24 DC installations in boats but I would assume with regards to the mains wiring that conduit or trunking is a must and the wiring would have to conform to heat and chemical environment regulations as in the use of fire & emergency lighting wiring, with allowences made for the movement of the cabling due to vibration within engine bays.

 

Regards

Alan

[VetChugger]

Hello John and thanks for taking such an interest!

 

Yes, you have hit on the point I am trying to make. I don't think my invertor is correctly installed.  I would understand if either the consumer unit or supply post tripped out but they don't. Its always the invertor itself.

The reason I'm "digging" on this one is I'm concerned what caused my charger to die! It is a good quality Sterling Pro Charge and is, supposedly, entirely suited to be left on continuous charge when the boat is left. The other consequence of the current wiring is that I also have to leave the invertor switched on for the charger to function. This also applies to the tube heaters in winter.

This is why I'm reluctant to simply have the charger repaired or replaced and put back as is!

I am determined to get to the bottom of this and, next time down, will try and arrange for HJ to come and have a peruse!

I'm actually still waiting for a verdict on the damaged charger from Brian Ward.

 

Thanks again for all the help and suggestion.

 

Trevor

 

PS. John, out of interest and just in case, what charger do you have on offer please?

[Hockham Admiral]

Trevor, no problems there.

You have exactly the thing I had and Col fixed it in a very short time.

I'm off to the boat on Sunday for a day on the river and I'll get the name for you.

[MBA Marine]

Its A BSS fail if more than one source of AC can be connected simultaneously, it also tends to render the invertor kaput! you may have a relay as mentioned but this would be rare, more common is a AC source selector switch, usually a rotary switch where you choose the source you wish to use but regardless of what is hooked up they are never joined together.  'Blue sea' do make a panel with double pole breakers and slide that you have to switch of one source, slide the slider over then switch on the other breaker. 

[Hockham Admiral]

It definitely is automatic on our boat, Mark.

 

I remember that when Barnes Brinkcraft fitted it the relay cost was a bit frightening; it has to take a switchover of up to 32A at 230V so it's no small thing! 

 

But then, our boat is totally electric and we could easily use up to 32A if we had several things going at once. We try to hook up to the higher supply socket if possible or start the genny when it's cold and we are cooking!

[Oddfellow]

I've had at least three Sterling inverters fail in the past two years.

[Hockham Admiral]

What power level are they, Andy? BB were using 5KW ones a couple of years ago on a new boat they were building.

[MBA Marine]

It definitely is automatic on our boat, Mark.

 

I remember that when Barnes Brinkcraft fitted it the relay cost was a bit frightening; it has to take a switchover of up to 32A at 230V so it's no small thing! 

 

But then, our boat is totally electric and we could easily use up to 32A if we had several things going at once. We try to hook up to the higher supply socket if possible or start the genny when it's cold and we are cooking!

Thats fine, but it would not be my first choice, it may be automatic but at the end of the day its a switch that uses electric to hold it open or hold it closed, and depending on how how its wired it could be energized for very long periods of time, and it may be prone to get stuck in that position. nothing wrong with and automatic as you say but it would not be my first choice.