In touch with Broads News, maybe.

[JennyMorgan]

Not sure if this is the best place for this but seeing some of the names involved I suspect that it will be pretty much on the ball:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1493168170964436/

Doubtless some will see it as just anti BA but the harsh reality is that the BA don't always get it right. Judge for yourselves, you can always ignore it if you wish! Personally I see it as pro Broads.

 

[Guest]

Unfortunately the link is only viewable by Facebook members  Peter.

 

I was going to keep an open mind too ! 

[JennyMorgan]

Good excuse to join Facebook then! It isn't all as bad Jeremy Kyle appears to suggest!

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

I`ve applied to join the group, so it will be interresting to see and read what others are saying, because there have been various points raised on this forum about the BA and what they`re up to. Things like doing away with quite a large number of moorings in very popular places etc.

 

That said, i`d like to think that i have an honest opinion, and am quite prepared to voice it, and if that means being critical, OR complimentary of the BA`s actions, then so be it.

 

I think if you were to ask ALL members on this forum, i`m sure all will have a mixed view of the BA, pointing their good points as well as their bad points. 

 

If this group is going to continuously knock the BA , then i`l withdraw from it, as i think it should be used as a medium for balanced discussion, very much like  some of the threads on this forum. I`ve been critical of the BA myself on numerous occaisions, but i also think in the past, the BA have done an excellent job, sometimes under difficult circumstances, sometimes under political duress.

[ranworthbreeze]

Hi Neil,

 

Same here, I guess as you said it is a case of waiting to see how the group develops.

 

Regards

Alan

[JennyMorgan]

Speed, there is one problem, and I say this with great honesty and feeling, despite all the good that they do the Authority continues to liberally give ammunition to it detractors. Expansionism at Oulton Broad for example, trying to extend the BA's powers beyond their executive area. Then there is the issue of being 'The Broads National Park' with its attendant complications for the boating community. I agree that a balance should be sought but the BA, by its own actions, is not short of detractors. Hopefully such a group will allow folk to let off steam rather than to clog up the various forums.s

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

Speed, there is one problem, and I say this with great honesty and feeling, despite all the good that they do the Authority continues to liberally give ammunition to it detractors. Expansionism at Oulton Broad for example, trying to extend the BA's powers beyond their executive area. Then there is the issue of being 'The Broads National Park' with its attendant complications for the boating community. I agree that a balance should be sought but the BA, by its own actions, is not short of detractors. Hopefully such a group will allow folk to let off steam rather than to clog up the various forums.s

 

Absolutely spot on Peter.

 

I will say though that in recent years, the BA have been to eager to embrace political issues, rather than what is best for the Broads, and the various groups of people, buisness, and industries that live and work there.

 

The people of the broads know what`s best for them, and although i`m only a regular visitor, i do respect the fact that if ANY authority is allowed to ride roughshod over the wishes of the local populas, be it the people or buisness etc etc, for the sake of political or financial fortune, the broads would be a lot worse for it for everyone, local, and visiting.

 

But that`s only my opinion, and one of the reasons why i think the BA should be an electable authority, who will be publically acountable.

[JennyMorgan]

My only reservation is that the Authority is unlikely to answer its critics although I'm sure their membership would be very welcome. 

 

I do see this as an opportunity for people to express their concerns. There are some very astute, knowledgeable people onboard.

[marshman]

But equally Peter, there are very many many more very astute, knowledgeable people not on board and given the tone, unlikely to join in - it  makes the whole exercise rather pointless IMHO and a bit like preaching to the already converted!!!!

 

Just to give an example of the kind of point that should be challenged is that made here on this very thread about the BA doing away with moorings in popular spots - not quite sure where these moorings are that the BA have done away with, but the issues have been discussed ad nauseum on separate threads and in reality have frequently nothing directly to do with the BA when the issues are examined more closely.

 

Think this group should be left alone to witter on rather pointlessly!!!!

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

But equally Peter, there are very many many more very astute, knowledgeable people not on board and given the tone, unlikely to join in - it  makes the whole exercise rather pointless IMHO and a bit like preaching to the already converted!!!!

 

Just to give an example of the kind of point that should be challenged is that made here on this very thread about the BA doing away with moorings in popular spots - not quite sure where these moorings are that the BA have done away with, but the issues have been discussed ad nauseum on separate threads and in reality have frequently nothing directly to do with the BA when the issues are examined more closely.

 

Think this group should be left alone to witter on rather pointlessly!!!!

 

 

Hi Marshman,

 

You say about a lot of astute and knowledgable people NOT belonging to it, , and then say at the end, leave this group to witter on, surely the best way would be to have as much input as possible with views, for and against, to give a balanced discussion group?. For those that are, dare i say it (in case it`s taken the wrong way), pro BA to boycott such a group is in my view, just shooting themselves in the foot. There`ll never be a chance of any meaningful discussion if the for`s don`t voice their opinions in objection to the againsts.

 

As someone who lives and works on the Broads, you have inside knowledge that visitors such as me, and many others on here simply don`t have, and often will never hear about, so if you did`nt get involved in a discussion, there might be at sometime, important issues that those outside the know comment on, purely on their limited knowledge, and possibilities, whereas if people such as yourself were to give your FACTUAL opinion, it may be something we don`t particularly like, but at least we will then know. It`s a very valid reason for joining a discussion group such as the facebook one.

[JennyMorgan]

Marshman, we both know that in many respects that the BA do an excellent job but there is an underlying culture within Yare House, and an underlying distrust along the river bank that can't be ignored. You are out on the water, surely you encounter it?

 

For example I had a contractor round mine this morning to quote for some work. Bloke works all over the Broads, meets all sorts and hears it all. Without any prompting on my part he aired his views on the Authority, citing numerous examples of what can only be described as incompetence, stating that if his four year old son was to do some of the things that he'd encountered then he'd tear his own hair out. He went on to say that for whatever reason the Authority appeared determined to return the Broads to an age gone by and in doing so the Broads was stagnating. You know what, I think that he is right, Oulton Broad certainly has a planning blight over it. He then asked me if I thought the Authority was fit for purpose? You'll have to guess my response! Anyway, point being do you really think that all this frustration and discontent should be glossed over and opinions suppressed? Clearly something is not right within Yare House.

[marshman]

Of course it should not be suppressed - but for every person who has the views expressed by either yourself or your contractor there are others with differing views.

 

You talk of a planning blight at Oulton? That may be because developments you approve of do not go ahead, whilst others do!! Thats not blight but your opinion - whilst I know you have been a vociferous opponent of the Pegasus development , this was always going to end up as a housing development, like it or not. And whilst a few continue to oppose it, the vast majority of local residents I would guess just don't really care!!

 

The Broads stagnating is a very wide statement - thats got I guess little to do with the BA and more about lack of inward  investment. Are you saying that the BA are deliberately operating a policy of turning investment away - I cannot see any evidence of that and as for suggesting they want to turn the clock back, its not the BA who oppose almost every planning application because of nimbyism!!! Or complain about almost every new development!

 

Only recently someone made a negative comment about Len Funnell's development at Horning but thats a classic example of funding the Broads is crying out for and the numbers of people prepared to put their hand in their pocket because they believe in the future are able to be counted on one hand!!

 

In my view its just so easy to punch someone with their hands tied behind there backs, so easy to apply criticism without any real insight, and perpetuate myths that individuals should have

long since lost interest in - the world moves on and in many respects I think those who protest most vociferously, just do not move with the times.

 

But thats only my personal view and I express my views as just that - indeed as are yours to which you are equally entitled and I respect you for that. But that does not mean either of us are right!!!!

[MauriceMynah]

There is the modern expression "Be careful what you wish for" or perhaps more appropriate, Hilaire Belloc's cautionary advice to children, "Always keep a hold of Nurse. For fear of finding something worse."

 

With the BA as it stands we know who's after what, and any weaknesses within. Perhaps it's best left that way!

[JennyMorgan]

Oh yes, I was against the 'Pegasus' development, especially when earlier plans exceeded well over 100 apartments, including some built standing in the water! Anyway, things might be changing there, if the grapevine is to be believed.

 

During the summer consent was granted for a waterside marquee at the Ivy Farm at Oulton Broad. There were wide ranging objections from those of us who live besides the water and had to endure the noise & disturbance. End result, by developer and objectors working together, support was given for a purpose built, sound proofed, permanant replacement to the marquee. Together we now have something very worthwhile for Oulton Broad being built, and guess what, we even exchanged Christmas cards! Working with the community, got to be the way forward.

[Baitrunner]

Digging through some old emails I found the Broadsheet link from Oct asking for people to volunteer to be considered for the Navigation Committee. No idea what sort of power or how much clout they have, but I am sure plenty of people on here will no doubt either know or have an opinion  

http://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/499363/Broad-Sheet-Sept-2014.pdf

 

OK so it's too late to apply now, but wondered if anyone has applied? Interesting to see who gets appointed (new, fresh faces with ideas or old school tie buddies).   

 

I doubt it would help with any of the planning applications (other than one that has been discussed at length as it affects navigation), but it was an opportunity to at least get a foot in the door?

 

Is this a sign of them opening up? Have they been secretive? I have no idea to be honest, but it was an opportunity for those who feel strongly to get involved (assuming they knew about it). 

 

Please don't shoot  the messenger as this post was just meant to ask if anyone else knew much about this and is it worthwhile? You will have to wait another 4yrs by the looks of it though to get a shot at it. 

 

ps. As someone who has no idea who any of you are it might be nice for us newbies if people put a bit of information on the forum as to whether your a visitor, boat owner/hirer, Broads house owner, worker, business owner or BA worker . makes it easier to understand someone elses point of view IMHO.

[JennyMorgan]

Mark, unless things have changed applicants for the Navigation Committee have to be 'approved'. In the past some very suitable folk have been overlooked in favour of some who really shouldn't be there. When I sat on the nav com a newcomer, sat next to me, leaned over and asked me 'what are the Broads?' Yes, absolutely true.

[Baitrunner]

Thanks JM.

Hearing from someone who has been there, seen it and read the book supports what I thought that it would be tough as an independent getting in the "club". Which doesn't help their cause.

[Guest]

But equally Peter, there are very many many more very astute, knowledgeable people not on board and given the tone, unlikely to join in - it  makes the whole exercise rather pointless IMHO and a bit like preaching to the already converted!!!!......

 

I've snipped out that paragraph from Marshman's earlier reply.

 

I think he's summed up my impression rather well too.

 

Especially the part about knowledgeable people being discouraged "by the tone".

 

It is so reminiscent of the failed "Toll Payers Association", which also appeared to be totally focussed on knocking the BA.

 

...and the lingering demise of that website did the BA watchdog movement no favours, especially as it's still up even now, after several years, with the stale content overtaken by spammers.

 

An Internet based public Watchdog association of the BA is a very good idea, but it is going to be difficult to co-ordinate enthusiasm with unprejudiced views.

 

(.....and I got round my aversion to Facebook by viewing the group on a friend's PC !    )

[JennyMorgan]

Mark, it is widely recognised that the present system is flawed. Indeed local MP's have been involved but a workable alternative has not yet been developed, Personally I was a DEFRA appointee, I got in via the backdoor! It was made clear to me that I did not represent angling clubs, despite being proposed by angling clubs, I was there as an individual to pass judgement on the evidence presented by 'officer's reports', reports that are closely controlled from above. I was not able to go back to my club and ask for a club decision. To me that was fundamentally wrong, I represented angling interests but I was expected to support the Authority. Indeed I was condemned by some for not providing unwavering support.

 

Strowager, no argument about the TPA. If nothing else it did provide an overdue, upward jolt to the NSBA so it's existence was not all a disaster. I'm afraid that its originator's commercial intentions were not immediately apparent to the founder membership. I rather regret, in hindsight, being involved but there we go. It could have worked. No doubt that the NSBA is no longer the poodle that it was, a positive from the short lived TPA 

[Guest]

Yes Peter, it is going to be difficult (and maybe superfluous), to try to compete with the newly enthused NSBA's critique of the BA.

 

They already have plenty of "clout", and are undoubtedly much better informed of the real facts than many disgruntled toll payers.

 

They can also quite rightly claim to represent over a thousand individual  paying members.

[JennyMorgan]

I note amongst the subscribers to the emerging facebook group a very healthy number of influential NSBA people. 

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

I read a couple of posts on the facebook site an hour ago, regarding the BA saying about their moorings, then a short while later, the poster posted a link from the BA`s very own website regarding them no longer leasing moorings. And that`s from their own web site, so how can that "be challenged" when the evidence is plane to see on their own website.

 

As i said before, the BA have done a lot of good for the Broads in the past, now however, it seems to be becoming an unelected political authority, whos aim is to do what`s best for the BA, at the expense of toll payers.

 

I`d love to be proved wrong, as being a toll payer myself, i want to believe they`re doing what`s best mine, and others enjoyment of the broads. Sadly, i don`t think that`s the case.

 

The sooner they`re made into an electable authority the better. The only thing is, how, and who do you propose the idea to,  It would be great to find out if it is indeed possible?.

[marshman]

Speedtriple - i suggest you go off and read a thread on the "other channel" about Boundary Farm and read the post by Torty ( Phil) - it says it all and to be honest sums it up perfectly. Of course by all means make them electable but I doubt it will make them any different - after all your councils right up from your local Parish Council are all electable but I do not see that that cures any ills!!!

[marshman]

Oh and I forgot to mention - be careful for what you wish for. The last people you want elected are those who wish to promote their own views and not necessarily the best for the Broads - the various Forums are full of those who would do the Broads no good at all and as they are often so good at self promotion likely to become favourites.

 

That would be disastrous - they are not what the Broads want. They want solutions, not self centred individuals full of their own importance - as they see it!!!

[JennyMorgan]

I well remember sitting next to an elected member of Norwich District Council who was something of a motor-mouth, nice person, good company but, sadly, short on Broads knowledge. Elected to the NDC but not elected to the Authority. 

 

I'm not sure that elections in the general sense can work on the Broads but I do recognise that the present system is not working as well as it might. I know that I am not alone in this. 

 

Whilst I recognise that there are national interests in the Broads I do think a level of knowledge and experience should be required. For some distant members their only contact with the Broads was, in my time, via clearly biassed officer reports. 

 

I don't remember where I picked up the following paragraph, and I don't think it related to the Broads as such but local government in general, but I do think it relevant:

 

No more senseless regulations.

No more cherry picking reports and advice to manipulate valueless consultations.

No more one size fits all regulations that serve no real purpose.

 

It is the second line that rings really true for me, and elections, unless for a CEO, will not correct the abhorant, blatant control exercised over committees. CEO wins the Broads Forum over, CEO then tell the Navigation Committee that the Broads Forum supports the proposal, they then support it and then the Broads Authority itself is persuaded that since everyone else supports it they should do too, and they do. True?