grendel

one would hope then that some advice on approaching a swimmer in the water would be given, eg shut off engine so that there is low risk to the swimmer from the prop - ah, but then they cannot manouver can they. as philosophical says - one more risk.

numerous maybe, but all of the safety concerns? many new ones have been proposed since Mels initial response.

closing the river to boat traffic would simplify the risks involved, but does not remove every safety concern. whether they would be allowed to restrict the navigation in this way is debateable. It does not remove risks due to restricted access for emergency services, or some of the other risks highlighted however.

I just think they will be reading this, copying it down as we are doing all their risk assessments for them (well we can but hope).

we have no proof that the organiser has disregarded safety concerns, but we see no mitigation measures that have been put in place either. if a risk has been recognised and assessed, then mitigation measures must be put into effect. If I were to do a risk assessment I would start by outlining the risk. risk, swimmer hit by boat. then I would look at the worst outcome of the risk worst outcome, death This would trigger a red risk, that would mean it would have to be mitigated or removed Then would come the mitigation, ie what could be done to remove or reduce the risk. mitigation, 1. remove the boats - this is not possible - navigation to be maintained 2. separate the boats from the swimmers - make marked traffic lanes to separate the two, make the swimmers more visible, etc etc as part of the process, if you cannot remove the risk of death or severe injury, then the activity cannot proceed, and a new way of performing the task has to be found. This was training I received at the HSE laboratory itself, a 3 day course for those who have to review other peoples risk assessments. we went into these things at great depth, being taught by one of the leading experts in the country. I have to say, it has been very beneficial to me in the way I look at tasks now, does it stop me doing things - no, but it does make me think first.

to be fair, a group of squaddies nowadays could well contain a percentage of the fairer sex. I'm not sure its up to 50/50 yet, but who knows.

sorry, that wasnt aimed at you in particular, I was using it as a generalised 'you', my apologies for not making that clearer.

our office has a metal roof, you could barely hear the phones ring.

oh, when did you do this - and are there any pictures?

If I was going to be on the rivers that weekend, and planned on negotiating that section, I would certainly be contacting the BA to complain, as I will not be, I wont.

I dont see any bullying, unless its by the supporters of the idea, saying the rest who raise safety concerns dont know what they are on about. well maybe not we are not all wild swimmers after all, but can you honestly say the safety concerns that have been raised are not valid. to me ignoring the safety concerns of other river users is much like sticking your fingers in your ears and going la-la-la because you dont want to hear that others might have concerns for safety that might stop them doing what they want without weighing the consequences. The incident I linked to above involved search and rescue teams for over a day- at an easily accessible location - for a 750m course. now imagine a similar search over 11km, this would probably necessitate closure of that section of river until complete. None off us here want to see an accident happen at such an event, which is why we are raising our concerns over the suitability of that stretch of river. another thought that suddenly rears its head, since access to the banks by supporters is difficult, how many will get the idea to hire a cruiser of day boat, and either follow the race or moor up at strategic points (further narrowing the navigable width for through traffic).

we ask do the organisers always get it right? well I found this http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3216996/Body-rescuers-searching-triathlete-feared-drowned-competing-swimming-leg-race.html and that was in open water, with no river traffic to complicate matters, not noticed to be missing until a spare bicycle was found after the swimming section.

I have found a typical picture of such an event - on the Thames, ie on a much wider river, this would be using over half of the available width of the river, leaving barely room for boats to pass (1m at each side and 1m between boats)

Another point I have not yet seen considered, we have considered boats and swimmers mixing (both private hire and safety boats) but we have not seen considered a collision between the river traffic and the safety craft, the impact of this is twofold, not only that the crew on the safety boat might sustain injury, but also then the swimmers lose a substantial amount of their safety provision (with little assistance available at bank side locations. every way you look at this it comes up as the wrong location.

I would be happy to see the event on the broads, but in an area where the river was wider and with more bankside access for emergency vehicles, and where a lane could be buoyed off to separate the swimmers and boats, or on one of the broads, but that section of river with little bankside access and the narrower width, seems to me ill advised at best.

Thats simple - it was your daughter, never yet known a young girl who didnt think about her figure, so diet coke or coke zero, if it had been a boy, it would have been a 50/50 over diet or full fat coke

at its narrowest, the river is about 22m wide (measured on google earth). allowing 8m width (2 boat widths) for river traffic in each direction (not an unreasonable allowance for boats passing each other), this leaves a 6m wide lane for the swimmers and safety craft - assuming that the safety craft will not obstruct the normal river traffic - is this really enough space for the safety craft to safely control and oversee the swimmers. I have estimated the above clearances, an 8m lane for the boats only allows 2m either side, 4m (or a boat width) when passing oncoming boats - or overtaking, and this allows a 2m clearance from the swimmers. ok, this is at the narrowest, but it shows that at places the space available for the swimmers will almost restrict them to single file, two abreast at most.

having watched both clips, neither cyclists were cycling carefully, the second even sails through a red light. as a driver I will slow down and wait for a suitable overtaking place to present itself when coming up behind cyclists.

MM dont you need the bucket for blackberrying and other things.

when I learned to ride a bike, it was drummed into me to stop at junctions, traffic lights etc, this stood me in great stead when I moved up to motorbikes, and yet again when I started driving cars. I just dont understand the mentality of the ones that just sail through the lights, and across junctions and pedestrian crossings. the only 3 cyclists who had the gumption to look embarrased when they sailed out from behind a hedge straight over a pedestrian crossing were the 3 police cyclists, luckily I was used to that crossing so had slowed right down and just stopped in time.

I had one of the little round metal discs sticking up from the handlebars, lethal if you fell off.

I think we better drop the cyclists as off topic before I have to moderate myself.

I edited my post above, its the lycra brigade I was meaning.

but they ignore all the rules. -well ok the ones in lycra pretending to be professional do

a bit like TFL lane closures, at £2500 a day.