marshman

Andy - better down and write a few risk assessments then! I suspected this was on the cards when we were discussing different ways of working perhaps - nows the chance to get some money back into the system I hope. It really does need it!

Don't worry Smoggy. You are not a nut case - if the erstwhile Smithsonian Institute says that copper surfaces kill the Covid19 virus in around 4 hours, I would tend to feel that belief confirmed! Unless, of course Trump has removed an odd Director or two and withdrawn funding but even so I would be tempted to believe them!!!

Nor me - I already had my air raid shelter full but sadly no one bothered to inform me it was the wrong threat about to strike....!!

You do really have to be careful what you believe - I think it was today I read about a study in Australia which had determined that sunshine killed the virus and that hot weather stopped it from spreading. This "major" study had looked at I believe some 749 cases and had made their decision as a result of detailed analysis! I am sure, but from such a narrow selection? Yeah right! And tell that to those in Mexico and Brazil and others in Latin America where I guess it is warm too, who are suffering far more than others, with basic healthcare systems and very limited testing - yet are they hotter than here? And today here in the UK they are saying that ,reluctantly, that the 2m social distancing regulation was based on outdated science and has overestimated the risk of transmission by 15 times!!! Yet that very premise has been the basis of almost all policies here ( almost uniquely throughout the world it has to be said ) and it is that very premise that is preventing schools from reopening. I sometimes think people really do want to believe the very worst they hear and can imagine!

Old age? It was only a few years ago that they stopped writing that as a cause of death.

Andy - want positivity so read up on Hugh Pennington and then his statement yesterday and even you may feel a little more cheerful! And I am a nobody but I will guarantee that there have not been 50000 deaths from Covid19 on its own - sadly many would have occurred without it and you will not get away from the fact the nearly 1500 people die every day, many unavoidable but not all. And MB - you come back as I would welcome all outsiders back to Norfolk!!!

Clearly Vaughan you did not read it! They are only fiddling with them - I think. They seem to be renewing the operating equipment which will make them "easier to maintain over the next 25 years" !!!

Andy - read up on Hugh Pennington and then his statement yesterday and then, even you may feel a little more cheerful! And I am a nobody but I will guarantee that there have not been 50000 deaths from Covid19 on its own - sadly many would have occurred without it and you will not get away from the fact the nearly 1500 people die every day, many unavoidable but not all.

I note Ricks comment about the Councils - I am amazed how they seem to be involved in almost every "reopening" decision putting more and more obstacles in every path!! However they won't be very slow in voting themselves yet more expenses because they think they are doing a great job!!!

I am sorry you got a smacked wrist over that MM because I had been in the middle of a long post pointing out that the poster, whose post probably started this, was himself deluded in passing the blame to HMG!!!! Even if it were true, and it probably isn't, the the amount of negativity creeping into a lot of the posts, and allowed, is depressingly large but IMHO is the fault of the media who delight in treating every fact, many biased in their favour, as confirmation that impending doom is just around the corner. Let me tell you , it isnt! But this doom mongering and fixation with death being the overriding principle is getting depressingly overpowering, like concentrating on mooring posts, ropes and taps, and latches when the risks are minuscule, and so small to be incalculable. As I have said before, and before again, its here and we have to live with it, but if you cannot adapt, the wider consequences to things like the future, are even worse, yes even worse than more and pretty limited now, deaths. If you think that the whole economy is unimportant, then I am afraid it is a very naive view and people will regret that. To me the prospect of several million unemployed is far more concerning, and whilst I am not a supporter of the present incumbent, we need to get people back to work, and especially children, the least affected, back to school to enable life to begin to operate again with a degree of normality. I can see the benefits of furloughing but it has a downside too - the sheer cost and the fact it creates the view that the State is always there to support you - it isnt!

I happen to know a bit more about the guy than perhaps you do, and that off the cuff comment is a little out of place in fact !!!!

Just to make some of you, including Andy Banner perhaps feel better, I have just read a quote from Hugh Pennington, one of Britains leading specialists in bacteriology for many many years, who has said he sees no evidence of further peaks in deaths.As you all know I am not an expert but he does a pretty impressive track record and letters after his name!!! He bases his view on the fact that others are using flu as a modelling system, yet Covid19 has no relationship with that whatsoever - we shall see won't we but I do hope this will prove to be correct and he is right, just to prove most of the doomsayers, including those spouting on here,wrong!

Blimey - I assume at that the engine is actually a runner!!!

There are just too many experts with the view that only their position is the correct one - a bit like journalists and Forum posters!!! Lock the so called experts in a room and tell them they cannot come out until they either have corona virus and/or reach a believable consensus!! Not just one or two but ALL of them!!!

Perhaps the future is important too? I don't particularly care as it has little impact on me but perhaps our children, and their children should have a view too? What of the harm it is doing to our children denied education and those denied further education? LIke it or not, the economy is important for them - do we know for example how many people have died of just Covid 19? Sadly only looking back will the real figure be seen and like Italy, we may well have to revise official figures downward as death certificates may not tell the whole tale. I guess some may have died of influenza too this year , but doubt that will be recorded as such. But Ray what the figures are unlikely to ever show until much much later, is whether your statement is actually true or not. As they say, we shall see - but not me!!!

Not often think this Pete, but you would be, I think, be pleasantly surprised - I don't think their fin keelers were much different to any other similar boats. But to many, sailing was not about performance but the whole experience and if that meant standing up and taking your family, then so be it! Bilge keelers were a compromise for areas like the Thames and East Coat but even the later ones of those were a real improvement with angled keels etc etc - and they didnt fall over!!!

Pete - don't start again on your dislike of Westerleys!!! You will be drummed out of the club!! To be honest I suspect you have never actually sailed some of the bigger and later ones, have you? And they were quality boats which many could afford - we all wanted an HR but you try sailing a fin keel in the Thames Estuary!! Actually whilst some of the early bilge keelers were a bit of a pig, as indeed were most bilge keelers, the later ones were fine and there is more to life than just the sails!!! Had and sailed a Pentland for many years but the huge advantage is you could take your family out too and stand up!! Folkboats and the like were lovely to sail, but not to live in!

Jaws - thank you for your concern, and I thank those who have expressed concern! I don't treat the issue lightly at all but I believe that the judgements I have made, and in all the circumstances, are the correct ones. And I have just remembered, its a brass tap as well so that reduces the risk further! Equally, I don't believe I take unnecessary risks - thats my judgement and we will see!

Or not worry about it as I will have just driven to the boat in my highly dangerous motor car and wandered about my deck without a life jacket on!!!!

Simon - and gate latches!!!!!! I accept that there must be the minutest of risk, if you say so, but if you accept there is a risk you have to be able to quantify it. And you cannot! When this issue of mooring side on at Ranworth came up, there were some who quite seriously believed there was a risk of catching it off mooring posts and ropes. Its all very well saying these things but its from these innocuous statements that the fear that is rampant arises - there just is not a quantifiable risk involved. And to add to that, remember it is only a very small number of people who catch Covid 19 who have severe symptoms and many have none at all, and the measurable risk decreases further still! However, I shall now not touch the latch at my marina now - there isn't a gate - but oh dear I need some water tomorrow, will the tap be ok? I guess not !!!! But we do need to accept change - we have to live with it especially as my expectation is, it is not just going to disappear. Sadly!

No Andy - I cannot tell you how to run your business but without a bit of imagination you may have issues. I sympathise but you forget about the risks you are taking every day ,without realising it. And certainly I know others in your industry who are possibly considering how to operate their boats and cope with the cleaning and with social distancing and the like, perhaps by leaving boats for 48/72 hrs - but perhaps they don't have the same duty of care you have. You actually don't have to actually be in an industry to have a clue. I agree that there would have to be many limitations but some revenue is surely going to be better than none, simply because handouts will begin to finish sooner rather than later Many, probably if not all, industry is having to adapt to survive - all I am saying is that some industry has had to adapt instantly - the food industry and delivery industry a case in point, whereas others may well be forced to eventually think out of the box a bit. I assume you have opened the rest of your yard now, and who knows the industry may well have to consider some limited hiring before the end of the season is out. Normal rules will not apply, but they don't in most other cases either. Lets see how it develops - you may be surprised! (And as for catching it realistically off a gate latch - what about those people who brave supermarkets to shop and who will brave other places from next week? I certainly do now and will continue to do so - but I agree thats my choice! )

You are of course, all entitled to your views but do you really think that there is any likelihood of catching it off a gate latch? If so, I think you are all looking for excuses NOT to ever do anything ever again! I am not sure if that really is your view, how you dare put your foot out of bed, let alone step outside your front door!! And as for getting into a car to move it off your driveway!!! And Andy you go on about cleaning your boats - why not stagger your rentals, if rentals were allowed, so that after a boat was returned, it was left untouched until 48 hours? Do you do your handovers in a closed room so whats the issue doing them outside? You take risks every day of your life like walking around a boat, let alone have issues from unknown other medical events, so a 1 to 1 handover would in all seriousness be pretty risk free - I certainly would not have too many qualms. No problem is too difficult if you are able to take a balanced view! And there we have Griff ( sorry Griff using you for illustrative purposes only!) advocating laser eye surgery - every kind of surgery carries a risk and there will be instances occasionally of some operations actually making things worse, but people are happy to accept that risk because that is what we do, and how we get through life. I would love someone to forward real evidence that you could get Covid 19 off packaging - I doubt anyone has actually done the science - other than on Faceache! The chance of someone with Covid 19 handling any package is very very small, and it then surviving in the hands of Royal Mail, is so small you would never even to be able to measure it!! We have to conquer fear and be able to make realistic judgements - I read the other day that scientists testing vaccines are having real problems finding individuals to test, and yet we all believe vaccines are the way forward - if not we have to cope and live with it, because as sure as eggs is eggs, we cannot live like this going forward expecting others to pay us to do not a lot except worry ourselves to death!

I agree, but the views of the Chairman are not necessarily those of the Society as a whole - what is the point of being more outspoken if there is very little left of the Society he presides over? Actually I am still a member and read the Harnser but don't often find many of the articles of real interest - its difficult I know but do you become more political - or less so? Not sure as go one way, and you risk alienating many members, or the other, and people lose interest! How fickle am I !!!!!! The Broads Society was an important part of the Broads scene and sadly lost its way for a variety of reasons - bit like the NSBA! I agree the best thing about the latter is the Green Book (where would we be without it?) - it probably the most used book on board other than my Hamiltons maps!!!!!

I don't think the risk from over nighting is low - its NIL in the circumstances explained! Not low, NIL! Its all about nimbys who won't allow second homers go back to their properties - I don't have a view on them as it does not affect me, but I am intrigued by the fact that some in Southwold, for example, still want them to stay away, yet in the same breath want extra Govt help in keeping their businesses alive, the very same the second homers attract and support! Cannot have it both ways!!!!!

The BA Rangers can only advise - they have no specific authority as over nighting is a matter for the police.