batrabill

There are lots of exceptions to all sorts of rules. Who has right if way if you come round a corner and a boat is stern-mooring on “your” side of the river?? You wait or go round them on the wrong side. It falls into that common sense part of life. But, I’ll have one more go. I am sailing in my boat which has a lot of sail. The river is quite busy. I approach a corner where my only line of sailing without tacking is close to the wrong side of the river. I’m fairly easy to see and my course is constant. 30 yards from the apex of the corner I think I may not make it - wind is annoying stuff and does all kinds of weird things. I start the engine. As I reach the corner I realise I’m just not going to make it. So I engage the drive and keep on the same course for 40 or 50 yards. I clear the corner and turn off the engine. I haven’t changed course or speed. Isn’t that ok? The alternative is, at the last minute I tack across the river at 90 degrees to the bank. Calling “I’ve got to tack” or “water” to sailors will get an instant response. On the Broads you’d have to pop over, and using diagrams explain the concept of tacking. Most have no idea what sailing boats are up to and while they might get the hang of it after while following you many still can’t work out why we’re zigzagging. So in the no engine scenario, some lunatic in a sailing boat on the wrong side of the river suddenly turned across us! Madman! I am suggesting that the first scenario is best for everyone. It’s not right or wrong but better

Haven’t done a side by side comparison but as I have always understood it the Byelaws are the Colregs with a few exceptions. All the stuff about trying to avoid other boats is the same. The flying of a cone to indicate you are a sailing vessel under power is one of the exclusions.

We were repositioning our Yeoman from Martham to Horning. Yeoman are 21 foot keel boats with no engine, although you can put an outboard on a mount. The wind died to nothing and we were drifting away from Horning on the tide with the sails up. We asked a passing hireboat if they could give us a tow, which they very kindly did, "Have you broken down?" the woman said. What can you say? "Yes," seemed the best answer.

There is no right answer to this, and it is easy to understand why powered boaters are often confused, but I'd like to offer a few thoughts. 1. The river is not a road where you drive on the left. 2. The colregs do not say "keep to the right" they say, "On canal and river waterways, vessels should keep as far to the right as is safe and practicable (Rule 9)." 3. Passing ANY boat is a 2-player sport. On the road you can say "I was on the correct side, any collision must be your fault." That isn't the same on the river. The Colregs are clear that both skippers must take measures to prevent an accident. 4. I know that sailing puts MORE pressure on the other skipper. Sorry about that. 5. When sailing on the Broads you very often find you are very close to the edge in terms of getting round a corner. The sailing boat will "pinch up", trying to get as close to wind as possible while still keeping forward motion. This will often be cutting a corner on the "wrong" side of the river. Around Benets there is usually tons of room to do that. If you try it in Meadow Dyke going up to Horsey it would be crazy. If you look at the map of the Horning to Thurne mouth section you will see that it is full of 90 degree bends. It is rare to travel it in either direction without the need to tack. 6. You often don't know if you are going to make the corner until you get there. 7. On a busy river many who have onboards will turn them on if they are struggling to make the corner, "just in case". Sometimes its not needed, sometimes it is very useful. Many of these skippers are also hirers who sail on the broads once or twice a year. 8. The alternative is a late tack (turning 90 degrees to awards the "right" side of the river) which will probably be slow (speed is lost in pinching) and will be 90 degrees across the river. This will be followed by a second tack, now turning to head up the river on the right side. This takes time and impedes both flows of river traffic. A late tack will often confuse other boaters (it is COMMON to be asked, "why are you zig-zagging all over the place?") and will put you side-on to all traffic. 9. So the least worst solution is often to give it a bit of gas on the "wrong" side of the river, and then carry on. 10. The obvious thing to stop confusion is not to sail upwind. But that's called motor boating and none of us bought a sailing boat to do that. 11. Sailing boats aint going away, so the more you understand our annoying ways the better. 12. Angry shouting is not acceptable. Sailors have to accept that many don't know what they are up to. We try VERY hard to be understanding, clear in our "instructions", and grateful for the 98% who do their best to help. Hope that helps

Cobblers, is the Covid truce over??? It was great while it lasted.

Currently I’m watching those who I presume think they are defending Churchill’s statue making Nazi salutes..... Im sure Winston would be thrilled.

We’re back to the Save the Whales! But why don’t you mention Porpoises??? Porpoise hater. This is the opposite of a “good point”

Spot on MM.

You first

Precisely, exactly! Lots of people at the time of slavery saw it as evil. Turned out they we right. Perhaps they’d be more deserving of a statue?

I will tell the people I know who marched at the weekend they were mindlessly rioting and filled with blind hatred. My niece will be amused that she took her 4 year old and 2 year old for a bit of mindless rioting. You don’t see it do you? You don’t even know anyone who is offended by the statue of a slave trader, do you? But you all feel qualified to comment.

Read back, it’s a catalogue of people coming up with Whatabout arguments. You don’t get it.

Whatabout..... Slavery is bad. Please feel free to argue with that. Racism of all kinds is bad. Please feel free to argue with that. Slavery as practiced by our nation was inherently racist. It was allowed because the slaves were seen as inferior human beings. Putting up monuments to people whose business was slavery would be seen as insane now. Read this for a little more nuance https://www.brh.org.uk/site/articles/myths-within-myths/

Frankly this just sounds like a bunch of white middle aged men endlessly saying “why is everyone making such a fuss about racism”? You’re just refusing to accept that there is a problem, which funnily enough means, yes you ARE the problem.

No. That’s a crazy comparison. Statues are erected to celebrate, mark, laud, and promote people of note. If you can’t detect how offensive it is for a black person to walk past a statue of a slave trader every day you are probably white. No history is “erased” by removing as statue of a slave trader. In fact many more people are now aware of the facts of the past and where a great deal of the wealth of this nation came from. The Nazis comparison is false, and so far over the top it beggars belief.

The above is still true. Your original statement is completely wrong. There is enough evidence to swamp a slave ship that white people are NOT discriminated against in the workplace but those from ethnic minorities are. It’s also a form of truth denial which shouldn’t have a place on a forum like this. Im actually sorry to hujack this thread but if people post dangerous, arrant nonsense it must be called out. Someone very stupid reading this might actually believe that white people are the subject of more racism in London than those of the ethnic minorities. That would be a shame.

Nonsense. Yours just changing the subject. Not falling for that. Start a thread about African genocidd why don’t you?

“Save the whales!” Hey, what about Porpoises?? You people are Porpoise haters.

Google “all lives matter”

This is what is known as whataboutism That is, someone highlights something bad, people rush in to say what about....? It’s just a distraction. I don’t have time in my life to address problems in other parts of the world, but when I see blatant racism in my own county it is my responsibility to call it out.

Right. This statement was not about East Timor or anywhere else. It was about London. It states quite simply that “there is far more racism amongst various non white cultures and institutionally against the domicile white population.“ Domicile can only mean white Londoners. The claim is that white Londoners experience far more racism than anyone else, and that it’s “institutional” This is Yaxley-Lennon doublethink. Let’s review that, in London it is the white population that is the main victim of racism. I’m embarrassed that anyone would defend this.

This is quite possibly the most untrue statement I have ever read. I can’t be bothered to unpick it. If you don’t recognise quite how false it is then you really have a problem. It is quite clear what tradition this thinking comes from.

https://www.newstatesman.com/2020/05/covid-19-pandemic-numbers

Daffodils

Farcical