Buying A Boat (again!)

[Wyndham]

Hi nice people.

I'm after someone with knowledge of second hand boat values.

Is there anyone or can you recommend anyone who can help can advise on the value of a boat I've seen advertised?

The reason I'm asking is something similar(ish) was sold back end of last year for a wildly different price.

I'd rather do it via PM instead of just putting the details here.

Ta.

 

[JennyMorgan]

What is a boat worth? Well, quite simply what someone is prepared to pay! And those someones sometimes pay well over the odds, especially as spring approaches. Good luck in your quest but remember that advertised prices are one thing, cash actually paid can be quite another thing, in other words haggle and be prepared to walk away. What is that boat worth to you, that's what matters.

[Wyndham]

Interesting JM, Thanks.

I'd prefer to avoid being a someone who pays over the odds.

Just to add, the advertised price of the boat that was sold was under half that of the one still for sale.

I'd like to have an idea of where the real price is.

[fishtone]

The boat you saw sold might have had underlying problems and the owner may have been desperate to sell.I have often seen the same model boat cheaper but when you start having a good look round you often find the dearer one the better.Is the boat with a broker or private sale as some private sellers are dreamers when it comes to valuing their boat.

[JennyMorgan]

11 minutes ago, Wyndham said:

Interesting JM, Thanks.

I'd prefer to avoid being a someone who pays over the odds.

Just to add, the advertised price of the boat that was sold was under half that of the one still for sale.

I'd like to have an idea of where the real price is.

That selling price, without knowing the fine detail, is the real price, your starting point. Some sellers have greatly inflated views as to the value of any extras that they have incorporated into their boats. Boats are a bit like buses, miss one then you just hang on and catch the next one. It all depends on how desperate the seller is and how desperate the prospective buyer is. 

[Guest]

Oops

[scraggs]

We paid nearly half what everyone else was asking for the same model of boat we bought, but she needs loads doing to her, the others needed bits doing but not as much as ours needs, if we were having the work done by someone it would have probably been cheaper to have bought one of the dearer boats requiring less work, it's only because I can do it myself that it has worked out a good deal.
That said, a few months after we bought ours one of the other sellers called me to say he was dropping the price a fair bit and were we still interested.

[rightsaidfred]

While there is a top and bottom value for any model of boat like everything else there can be a considerable difference depending on condition, fit-out extras etc. probably the best judge is a good surveyor.

Fred

[Wyndham]

A nice member has informed me that the lower priced boat seemed ridiculously low and that someone got a real bargain.

 

[rightsaidfred]

Or a pig in a poke one mans bargain is another`s disaster depending on your expectations and abilities.

Fred

[imtamping2]

2 hours ago, rightsaidfred said:

Or a pig in a poke one mans bargain is another`s disaster depending on your expectations and abilities.

Fred

And whether your glass is half full or half empty......................... 

[Wyndham]

A bit of info on our boat search.

We visited norfolk on Thursday to look at some boats, a two hour journey normally, which took three and a half hours due to the wind and fallen trees. At one point Mrs W was in danger of wetting herself but we found a loo just in time.

This is the first time we have viewed boats in person, up until now we've just looked online.

We looked at 6 boats and despite having a clear idea of what we wanted we ended the day having a rethink.

The boats we saw, well..... first of all we were quite amazed at how little some (not all) of the owners had done to prepare them for sale. It's expected the outside may need a clean, but surely no excuse for having empty coffee mugs, drinks tins and unclean work surfaces. If they can't be bothered to do that it makes you wonder what else they've neglected.

One of the boats was lovely, however it had a complete lack of storage. You could manage a summer weekend on it but never a week in October, well not being comfortable.

One other was OK but was bigger than we wanted ideally, but we may end up going bigger depending on what direction our rethink takes us.

The others, well again storage was an issue but not as bad. All had good points and bad points, but also just not getting a feeling that this was the boat for us, if you see what I mean.

Also went to 2 marinas to enquire about moorings, both full but said spaces do become available in the spring. We wanted to pop into Richo's to enquire about private moorings there but ran out of time.

Enjoyable day, left us with more questions than answers and also more knowledge of boats.

We'll keep looking, we're in no rush and I'm sure the right one will come along.

[MauriceMynah]

11 minutes ago, Wyndham said:

All had good points and bad points

Yes, Boats are like that. :-)

12 minutes ago, Wyndham said:

Enjoyable day, left us with more questions than answers and also more knowledge of boats.

Yes, Boats do that to you too. :-)

Generally speaking, boats are small and have little storage, so, as has been said before, re-think what you need to take on board. 

[ExSurveyor]

I don't know what size or age you are looking for but our Calypso has stacks of storage,  more than we use,  whereas the Topliner,  although bigger has far less useable storage in comparison

[ranworthbreeze]

Hello Wyndham,

I would secure a mooring before you start looking for a boat in ernest. If you are looking for a northern rivers mooring it can be a case of waiting for dead men's shoes, after saying that there are not many if at all spaces at our marina in Brundall.

As already said space on a boat can be a premium so you have to be selective on any items stored, some might say only room for emergency food and beer

Have you come to a decision on the type of boat you are looking for? 

Regards

Alan

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Wyndham said:

A bit of info on our boat search.

We visited norfolk on Thursday to look at some boats, a two hour journey normally, which took three and a half hours due to the wind and fallen trees. At one point Mrs W was in danger of wetting herself but we found a loo just in time.

This is the first time we have viewed boats in person, up until now we've just looked online.

We looked at 6 boats and despite having a clear idea of what we wanted we ended the day having a rethink.

The boats we saw, well..... first of all we were quite amazed at how little some (not all) of the owners had done to prepare them for sale. It's expected the outside may need a clean, but surely no excuse for having empty coffee mugs, drinks tins and unclean work surfaces. If they can't be bothered to do that it makes you wonder what else they've neglected.

One of the boats was lovely, however it had a complete lack of storage. You could manage a summer weekend on it but never a week in October, well not being comfortable.

One other was OK but was bigger than we wanted ideally, but we may end up going bigger depending on what direction our rethink takes us.

The others, well again storage was an issue but not as bad. All had good points and bad points, but also just not getting a feeling that this was the boat for us, if you see what I mean.

Also went to 2 marinas to enquire about moorings, both full but said spaces do become available in the spring. We wanted to pop into Richo's to enquire about private moorings there but ran out of time.

Enjoyable day, left us with more questions than answers and also more knowledge of boats.

We'll keep looking, we're in no rush and I'm sure the right one will come along.

This time last year I was looking for a boat as was also amazed at way some boats were presented, like you requirement for an exterior clean was not seen as a negative. What did surprise me and worry me to the point that some boats were immediately discarded was the lack of maintenance  for "silly items", a broken light fitting hanging on wires, a broken seat back etc.. If the previous owner was not prepared to spend £50 here and there for visible issues,  I would have serious concerns about the more expensive, hidden and critical maintenance 

[Wyndham]

23 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

...... re-think what you need to take on board. 

I will forward your reply to Mrs W

[Wyndham]

24 minutes ago, ranworthbreeze said:

Hello Wyndham,

I would secure a mooring before you start looking for a boat in ernest. If you are looking for a northern rivers mooring it can be a case of waiting for dead men's shoes, after saying that there are not many if at all spaces at our marina in Brundall.

As already said space on a boat can be a premium so you have to be selective on any items stored, some might say only room for emergency food and beer

Have you come to a decision on the type of boat you are looking for? 

Regards

Alan

I must admit, I hadn't thought of getting the mooring first. Trouble is, it could takes us many months to find what we want and then we'd be paying for the mooring and not using it. Maybe best to not put in a firm offer without being sure we have a mooring.

As for what type of boat, initially the idea was that it must get under Wroxham bridge. However, if it can't it will have other benefits.

We're still around 70/30 in favour of the low airdraft though. Whether I have the balls to take it through is another matter!!  

[Regulo]

Definitely get a mooring sorted, unless the boat you buy comes with the option of continuing renting where it is. Let's face it most moorings are let on an annual basis, so you're going to end up paying that anyway, whether you have a boat on it or not.

And don't rush into taking second best, be sure of what you want out of the boat. As said, even larger boats aren't always blessed with ample storage.

[imtamping2]

Whatever boat you decide on........ eventually you will be reciting those infamous words from the "Jaws " movies .....

                                                        "We need a bigger boat ".

As Regulo  says .... "don't rush into taking second best"     think long and hard about what you want to do with the boat, where you want to take it and with how many people, what facilities you require and how long you are going to stay on it.(these points will dictate how much room you need........

But most importantly see and go on as many boats as you can..........

Good Luck...................

[Guest]

We hired a holiday place in the broads area and spent a full week looking at boats, and this was after watching the market very closely for the previous few months. As you have discovered there is no price guides for boats and asking prices for seemingly similar boats can vary wildly. All I know is when we stepped aboard our Safari we knew pretty much instantly it was the one and thankfully it turned out to be a good boat and I think we got it at very good price but all boats will test your patience and bank balance at some point so its important to have reserve funds over and above the purchase price.

[rightsaidfred]

As has been said take your time and make sure the boat is right for you, one thing to bare in mind when considering storage is different boats of the same model can and do have different layouts according to the yard that fitted them out so don`t discount a model or style of boat on the layout of just one boat.

Fred

[Guest]

Regarding storage, our boat has loads of it, but that is mainly a function of its flat sided hull shape and wide beam for a 25 footer, if you want a 'prettier' boat it wont have the same storage. Thankfully I like the Safaris dumpy looks so I get the best of both worlds.

Here is a pic of ours looking aft, as you can see its cupboards, drawers and hanging lockers galore, and there is more storage up front in the main saloon.

[MauriceMynah]

I have owned (and learned from) four boats. My first (called Kiwi) was a 16ft long marine ply wreck. it slept 3 when the queen had her silver jubilee. A bit cramped but doable. At 16ft space was at a premium and it had some nifty space saving ideas.

My second boat called Nyx, I purchased as an empty shell, just hull, superstructure main bulkhead and floors. it was 22ft long GRP Viking (a model no longer made) I fitted it out and it slept 4. I used some of the ideas I had learned from boat1. 

My third was called St Christopher. It was a 25ft Seamaster, and at one point slept 5 after I re-designed and fitted the cabin space.

My current boat is called Nyx (was "Grey Goose IV" ) it is an aft cockpit Elysian Bounty. The designers could not see a bit of space without wasting it. It too has slept 5, but far from enough storage. In that sense it's the worst designed boat I've ever had, but as I'm usually on my own, the wasted space is less important.

So! What's the point of this post? Well, apart from exercising my fingers, it's to point out that the length of boat does not necessarily equate with the useable space within, but does give the light airy feeling the longer it is.

It may be obvious to you but always look for the design/layout over the length. Remember, size isn't everything, it's what you do with it that counts.  ... Gracie, Behave.!!!

[StillCruising]

As others have said from an original wish list there are always the compromises. For us the base essentials   were centre or rear cockpit, beds that could be made and left in a separate cabins i.e. not open plan, a fully folding soft top and a diesel engine with shaft drive.  After some looking around this led us to a length requirement of 26 to 35 feet depending on layout.  We eventually found a Seamaster 30 that ticked all boxes but it was sold. Knowing that our ‘dream boat' was something of a rarity both in Norfolk and further afield we eventually settled on a smaller rear cockpit narrower beam boat. This was Ok and we liked the boat especially the shallow draft, and low air draft however Swmbo’s mobility dramatically worsened and because the narrow beam made the boat quite ‘tippy’ getting on and off it became a big problem for her.  While we were considering future viability of the boat not one but two Seamaster 30 soft tops came up for sale at the same time. The first we rejected as it had some features that we weren’t too keen on but the other although not in as good condition overall was exactly what we wanted.  Due to the rarity (only 6 on the broads) and another person who went on a test drive after us also being very keen there was no real haggling room so we placed a holding deposit pending the boat being lifted for inspection.  This revealed a couple of notable faults, one that was easy to fix and one could be put off for a while.  We did try to get a price reduction on the basis of the faults found but the seller wouldn’t budge by much  so rather than loose the boat we paid up. The first fault was sorted out by myself and we made and continue to make a yearly budget for all the other things that were either required or niceties’ that we wanted.  We have now had the boat 8 years and it still serves us well, the separate cabins have allowed our younger guests (grandchildren) to have their own space which is a big advantage.  So my thoughts are, try not to set your heart on a rare boat unless you are prepared to wait and possibly pay over the odds, don’t settle for a ‘second choice’ unless you have to and think about your possible requirements for the future.