WINTER - BOAT IN OR OUT OF WATER ??

[robdorling]

Hi Guys

Now winter is here , I have a heater in the cabin and am fitting a pair of greenhouse tube heaters in the engine bay which will be left on but the next question is do i have her lifted out and put on hard standing or leave her in the water in case of nice winter weekends ? , Taking into consideration the fact that the boat will need to be heated in or out of the water , What difference does it make except for the cost and being unable to use her ? . I saw several boats on the car park at WRC today and am wondering what to do , Also how often does it need antifouling , mine was done this march ?

Rob

[Antares_9]

It's a matter of personal choice Rob, if she's protected against frost then it's your choice, in fresh water you can usually get away with antifoul for a couple of years especially if you go saltside every now and again, the only thing I would really recommend an annual lift for is anode inspection, but that can be just a quick hold in the slings and pressure wash unless they need replacing. If you have spares ready you can do it at that time if needs be.

[baz1033]

Hi

I'm based at the wrc and I kept osprey in the water last year with heaters on and had no problems and some great weekends through the winter.

I dont know where your boat is in the marina but at the coldest times last year the marina did freeze over.

My boat was in the water for about a year when I had it lifted and on my boat there was hardly any growth and the anodes were still like new, so there are not any problems keeping it in at the wrc.

A quick lift wash and check over in the slings will do in the spring. then you only pay for one lift which as you will already know is not cheap at the wrc.

Barry

[wayneakp]

Hi Rob

We are doing a bit of both this year. I have also been up the marina this weekend fitting tube heaters. Being a tight sod I have them on stats so I dont pay for any more leccy than I have to

I have also put the dehumidifer on board.My only worry is that because of the design of my raw water system I cant get into it to pour some anti-freeze in - but with the heaters that should be ok.

Having said that the heaters are only any good if the leccy is on and has not tripped for some reason.

In the new year she will come ashore for two to three months for some TLC.

rgds

Wayne

[robdorling]

Thanks Guys

I think im going to leave her in and perhaps pull her out in the spring for a quick anode check and clean and if needed antifoul .. . .#

Barry how could you forget where "relentless" is moored lol , We will probably be down on the occasional bright weekend , might catch up soon ...

Wayne where you there today , i popped down to take a few bits and pieces off the boat today , id have said hello if id realised ..

[AEJB]

Ive kept a bathtub at Ranworth for over 15 years. She comes out every third year for a bottom half paint, check anodes and a antifoul.

During the winter we take her for a bimble up the river every 2 or three weeks. I have never left any heating on in any part of the boat, I even leave a couple of windows slightly open.

So far (touch wood) I havn`t had any problems.

[Hockham Admiral]

Hi Rob

I have also put the dehumidifer on board.My only worry is that because of the design of my raw water system I cant get into it to pour some anti-freeze in - but with the heaters that should be ok.

Wayne

Wayne, Hi

Surely you can get into the water strainer to clean it out? I shut off the cooling water and then pour anti-freeze mix into the opened strainer while Mary-Jane starts and runs the engine for a short time. I find about 5L of 50/50 gets right through to the exhaust.

[Hockham Admiral]

Ive kept a bathtub at Ranworth for over 15 years. She comes out every third year for a bottom half paint, check anodes and a antifoul.

During the winter we take her for a bimble up the river every 2 or three weeks. I have never left any heating on in any part of the boat, I even leave a couple of windows slightly open.

So far (touch wood) I havn`t had any problems.

You're a braver man than I am, Gunga Din!!! (with apologies to RK)

[wayneakp]

Wayne, Hi

Surely you can get into the water strainer to clean it out? I shut off the cooling water and then pour anti-freeze mix into the opened strainer while Mary-Jane starts and runs the engine for a short time. I find about 5L of 50/50 gets right through to the exhaust.

Hi John

I did think about doing that. I can get to the strainer which is attached to the sea cock. I can shut the sea cock and pour in A.F while the engine is running but I am a bit of a scaredy cat with the possiblity of running the impellor dry. -

Maybe I'll be brave and give it a go.

Thanks

Wayne

[Hockham Admiral]

Wayne, Hi

So long as you warm up the engine first and have a helper and a big jug (or a funnel and a can) of anti-freeze ready, then it's no problem. I use a small watering can I bought just for this.

Get your helper to start the engine at idle revs and keep continuously pouring in the mix and then call for shut-down just before you run out! Ideally a second helper can call for shutdown as soon as they see anti-freeze come out of the exhaust.

I used this procedure on both propulsion and genny engines several times over last winter without a problem.

Good Luck!

[mbird]

I did think about doing that. I can get to the strainer which is attached to the sea cock. I can shut the sea cock and pour in A.F while the engine is running but I am a bit of a scaredy cat with the possiblity of running the impellor dry. -

Maybe I'll be brave and give it a go.

Hi Wayne

I think I'd advise against this with your engines. This is exactly the way I used to do the engine on my last boat, but that was a little BMC 1.5 and still pulled the AF mix from the weed filter faster than I could pour it from a 5L container. With your engines I really think the flow of the water pulled by the impellors would be greater than you could feed it in. Only my opinion, but I wouldn't risk it..... I wonder if you could rig a hose from the raw water pump into a barrel of AF so it could suck it in at it's own pace?

[mbird]

Hi Guys

Now winter is here , I have a heater in the cabin and am fitting a pair of greenhouse tube heaters in the engine bay which will be left on but the next question is do i have her lifted out and put on hard standing or leave her in the water in case of nice winter weekends ? , Taking into consideration the fact that the boat will need to be heated in or out of the water , What difference does it make except for the cost and being unable to use her ? . I saw several boats on the car park at WRC today and am wondering what to do , Also how often does it need antifouling , mine was done this march ?

Rob

Hi Rob

Serenity has a pair of 4ft tube heaters in the engine bay, which I added a plun in stat to that comes on at 6 degrees. She was in the water at Brundall Bay all last winter where the water froze to a thickness of up to 3 inches for several weeks. Apart from draining the domestic water supply and clorifier completely, the only winterising I did was to pour antifreeze into the weed filters and then kick the engines over, I repeated this a few times just to make sure there was some AF in the heat exchanger. We had no problems and of course this doesn't stop you using the boat on nice days.

She did come out before easter for a bit of maintenance, where we found we had knackered props, so the 2 day lift turned into a 2 week perios on the hard, and I took the opportunity to oil change the legs, replace anodes and antifoul her. We have no intention of having her out this year, other than a quick lift in the spring to check her over and change the leg oil again.

[wayneakp]

Hi Wayne

I think I'd advise against this with your engines. This is exactly the way I used to do the engine on my last boat, but that was a little BMC 1.5 and still pulled the AF mix from the weed filter faster than I could pour it from a 5L container. With your engines I really think the flow of the water pulled by the impellors would be greater than you could feed it in. Only my opinion, but I wouldn't risk it..... I wonder if you could rig a hose from the raw water pump into a barrel of AF so it could suck it in at it's own pace?

Hi Mark - I have been thinking of putting a vetus type stainer in the line after the impellor . This was just in case I ever have an impellor break I wont be worried about bits of rubber in the engine. This would also allow me a "high" point into which I can pour some af.

BTW what power are your heaters? At 4 ft they are getting on twice as long as mine - 80 w each. Mind you the engine bay is quite well insulated.

rgds

Wayne

[Antares_9]

Putting in a strainer after the impeller will stop any bits reaching the HE stack Wayne, but you will not be able to introduce A/F through it with the motor running as it will be under pressure. Something that strainers are not designed for by the way, they are designed to be operated under suction though in practise I guess that's academic. They may well allow you to introduce AF under gravity to displace the fresh water if they are high enough, but that is fraught with the danger of water or A/F finding its way into the exhaust manifold and cylinders if the motor is not running at the time, which it can not be for the reasons I have explained.

[senator]

Clanny stays in other than a 2 week lift in the spring to check things over and service the legs.

On both our boats our first job has been to strip back the antifoul to gel, done that for two reasons, to have a proper and thorough check of the hull for any stress cracking or osmosis blisters and then to make sure that the normal pot hole appearance that seems common on all the boats we look at is got rid of, a smoother bottom makes for more speed and less fuel.

We have a 180w tube heater on a stat in Clanny and last year despite a couple of inch's of ice there was a nice 6" gap all the way round not just our boat but all the boats with tube heaters, despite there being a good inch of ice in the marina.

[BroadAmbition]

Please be aware that 'Normal' AF is highly poisinous to the aquatic wildlife and whilst blowing AF out of an exhaust may protect your engine it will do the opposite for our vunerable friends.

There is a solution though, most chandlers do now supply enviroimentally friendly AF that does no harm to aquatic wildlife, Please try to use these products for winterising - Thanks

[Antares_9]

Please be aware that 'Normal' AF is highly poisinous to the aquatic wildlife and whilst blowing AF out of an exhaust may protect your engine it will do the opposite for our vunerable friends.

There is a solution though, most chandlers do now supply enviroimentally friendly AF that does no harm to aquatic wildlife, Please try to use these products for winterising - Thanks

I can only echo that, it has been mentioned in threads on winterising here and other places a number of times on winterising threads and it does no harm at all to reinforce it.

[mbird]

Hi Mark - I have been thinking of putting a vetus type stainer in the line after the impellor . This was just in case I ever have an impellor break I wont be worried about bits of rubber in the engine. This would also allow me a "high" point into which I can pour some af.

BTW what power are your heaters? At 4 ft they are getting on twice as long as mine - 80 w each. Mind you the engine bay is quite well insulated.

Hi Wayne, that is exactly how the strainers are fitted on Sealines. On my engines, though, there is very little height difference between the strainer and the heat exchanger, so introducing it there allows a bit to go in, but then seems to find equilibrium and no more is taken through by gravity.

WRT the heaters, I have no idea what power they are, but I am under the impression they tend to be about 40w per foot length, so each around 160w in that case. I know they keep the engine bay very warm and hence the stat I fitted. I reckon they are a bit over-spec, but then do warm up quick when the temperature drops.

Putting in a strainer after the impeller will stop any bits reaching the HE stack Wayne, but you will not be able to introduce A/F through it with the motor running as it will be under pressure. Something that strainers are not designed for by the way, they are designed to be operated under suction though in practise I guess that's academic. They may well allow you to introduce AF under gravity to displace the fresh water if they are high enough, but that is fraught with the danger of water or A/F finding its way into the exhaust manifold and cylinders if the motor is not running at the time, which it can not be for the reasons I have explained.

Yes David, I found all about the pressure last year when I did naively try to get AF into the system the old BMC way! Rather a good soaking I got too

Just picking up on your point about the danger of getting the AF into the exhaust manifold, if on sterndrives, will any excess not simply join the exhaust elbow then g oout via the legs? To get it into the manifold, wouldn't the legs have to fill up first?

[Antares_9]

Depends where it’s injected into the risers or exhaust manifold, that is often on an elbow where it mixes with the gasses at a high point on the manifold so obviously it can get from there downward. To be certain it is worth an inspection of exactly where the raw water is injected on your specific installation.

[SteveO]

Interesting thread, this. I set up a 4ft tube heater on the raw water side of my engine yesterday, wired into a thermostat set at 6 degrees. I have no idea of the wattage of this - suspect 80, but am now wondering if I should put a second heater down on the other side of the motor.

I am also interested in the concept of feeding 50:50 antifreeze into my raw water intake. I have no idea of the rate at which the raw water pump on my 2.2 litre BMC takes in water and don't want to risk knackering my impeller by running dry whilst inadvertently pouring coolant into the bilges rather than into the top of the weed strainer. I have considered pushing a 1 inch pipe into the top of the raw water inlet, sealing it with duct tape and looping the other end into a 5 litre container of 50:50 mix. Does anyone think that will work?

Regards

Steve

[Guest]

My 2ft tube heater is 80 watt, so I would imagine your 4ft is probably about double, as they usually have a proportional output.

In which case, I would have thought 160 watts would be ample for most engine compartments. They are much better insulated than the average greenhouse, and quite low wattage heaters can keep those above frost level. You're only looking to raise the ambient temperature by 5 or 10 degrees at the most, with a very confined and small air volume.

You could also consider fitting a tee piece before the pump with two ball valves. One on the intake pipe and the other on a short stub going down to a bucket or plastic container. Fill the bucket with anti freeze mix, then close the intake and open the other valve to draw the anti freeze in. (Just make sure that you never leave both valves open !)

[mbird]

I have no idea of the rate at which the raw water pump on my 2.2 litre BMC takes in water and don't want to risk knackering my impeller by running dry whilst inadvertently pouring e

Hi Steve

I think the 2.2 BMC will pump water about the same rate as a 1.5, in which case you can just about keep up pouring directly from a can or big funnel. Just make sure you have a helper on the stop switch of the engine. Using the syphon technique you describe would also work, but I'd make sure the container of antifreeze was above the level of the weed filter so you haven't got a pipe full of air to suck first and mean you wouldn't necessarily need a completely air-tight seal with your duct-tape.

[Antares_9]

You're only looking to raise the ambient temperature by 5 or 10 degrees at the most, with a very confined and small air volume.

Remember that engine rooms are designed to allow lots of air (especially if you have big lumps) in and usually arranged with a cross flow format, whilst this may well not allow any freezing if you have enough heat, there's no point in paying to heat air that's just escaping from the vents, I always block mine with packing, don't forget to remove it before use.

[Guest]

A very good idea for most people Antares, which I confess hadn't occurred to me.

Thinking about it though, my boat has a petrol engine, so I think I'd like to reap the benefit of any natural ventilation.

[Antares_9]

Why Stow, do you have a petrol leak?