Winterising Again

[wooster]

Hello,

 

I know this has come up a few times but I'd just like to make sure I'm on the right track please. I am keeping my boat in the water this year, and hope to have the odd overnighter in her over winter. I'm planning to do the following in between trips.

Run the water taps until the water is gone

Make sure toilets are pumped out completely

Fill up with diesel

The engine has had an oil change last month and has anti-freeze

Stick in a tube heater in each of the cabins. I thought I'd stick in a 1 meter tube in the main cabin which is pretty long and has a lot of windows. The engine is under the floor of this so how about if I leave the hatch open to warm the air around the engine to prevent frost. I thought being on the water line it wouldn't get too cold anyway?

Seem all right?

If all this is goo, I'm curious as to how many tube heaters I'd need. She is 37' with a beam of 12'3". The front and back cabins are around 8 ft each and the main is around 21ft. 

 

Thank you for bearing with me

[Vaughan]

Tube heaters are all very nice but we don't use them on hire fleets.  Imagine the electricity bill!  I would say the main thing is ventilation.  If the boat is well ventilated, you won't get damp.  If you have hopper windows, leave them open. Open all cabin and cupboard doors and pull all drawers half open.  If possible, stand mattessses on end, in case of leaks around the window seals.

If your domestic water piping is plastic it should not be a problem but otherwise, find a connection at the lowest part of the pipework - which is often the water pump - open it and drain the system. Some also drain the calorifier tank but as it is already insulated, this should not be a problem.

Don't forget, before you finally stop the engine, to run antifreeze through the raw water cooling system.  If you change the impeller every spring, no problem but otherwise, take the impeller out of the pump for the winter and if it is in good condition, you can re-use it.  I usually leave it on the dashboard, to show that the engine is winterised.

[Smoggy]

We use the boat all winter leaving it 3-4 weeks in between and most of the time I look at the forecast ahead and judge it from that, there's not many really cold snaps that are not seen coming and worst case is a quick dash to the boat to sort it (180 mile round trip), my main regime for most of winter is shut off water pump power and let the pressure out by opening a hot and cold tap and leaving them open, run a couple of litres of 50/50 mix anti freeze through each raw water filter till gone, pump the bog empty and shut off all sea cocks, takes maybe 10 minutes when mooring up and leaving and about 5 minutes making sure raw water filters are re-primed when arriving next time and not too much anti-freeze (use the non toxic stuff BTW).

If a real cold snap is due then drain the water tank and pipes as best as I can and chuck a splash of anti-freeze down there as well, not had an issue yet including during the beast from the east.

My deck shower is isolated and drained over winter anyway and I have a convenient tee and valve between water tank and pump which makes it easy to drain tank and push air through the water system to clear more water.

We don't get the winters we used to.

[Happy]

1 hour ago, Smoggy said:

We use the boat all winter leaving it 3-4 weeks in between and most of the time I look at the forecast ahead and judge it from that, there's not many really cold snaps that are not seen coming and worst case is a quick dash to the boat to sort it (180 mile round trip), my main regime for most of winter is shut off water pump power and let the pressure out by opening a hot and cold tap and leaving them open, run a couple of litres of 50/50 mix anti freeze through each raw water filter till gone, pump the bog empty and shut off all sea cocks, takes maybe 10 minutes when mooring up and leaving and about 5 minutes making sure raw water filters are re-primed when arriving next time and not too much anti-freeze (use the non toxic stuff BTW).

If a real cold snap is due then drain the water tank and pipes as best as I can and chuck a splash of anti-freeze down there as well, not had an issue yet including during the beast from the east.

My deck shower is isolated and drained over winter anyway and I have a convenient tee and valve between water tank and pump which makes it easy to drain tank and push air through the water system to clear more water.

We don't get the winters we used to.

I really do hope you hav'nt spoken too soon!  

[annv]

Hi Wooster Just to add to Vaughan's comment if you have a temperature controlled shower taps,  unscrew the controls to drain out the water otherwise they can be damaged if it gets cold enough, and close all hull valves, its also good to disconnect the battery leads if you dont have a battery maintainer . And can you guarantee the electric supply if relying on heaters. John

[Cheesey69]

I’ve got hold of a 25ltr container which has anti freeze mix in it. Whip off raw water filter cover as the admiral starts the engine and keep pouring until the mix exits. 
I need a fair amount and a decent rate of pour because as I found out, it also cools the hydraulic oil. 
This also allows the boat to be quickly recommissioned. 
If you have shore power then I’d use a dehumidifier draining into a sink

[Smoggy]

I suppose the main question is how far do you live from the boat and how much free time do you have?

[wooster]

Thank you people. Lots of good suggestions. I should have said I live about 140 miles away from the boat so it isn't really a quick visit for me. I do have a couple of strong benefits in reliable shore power and a nice couple moored next door who are pretty much on their boat every day so they do keep a look out for me. 

 

I will certainly drain the domestic water via hot and cold taps and run some anti-freeze through the raw water pipes.

I am pretty sure my domestic water pipes are plastic and I don't have any temperature control on the showers and just having the one boat running heaters over winter isn't too bad an issue for me, though given what many people are saying, they might not be necessary. I will need to consider that.

If I did run heaters, would a couple in the main cabin where the engine is with the hatch open to let the warmer air into it work sufficiently well? I don't suppose it would be of benefit if I was leaving the windows open though so maybe not worth it? On the other hand if I had heaters, a humidifier and shut the windows would that just be doing two opposite things to no real advantage?

Would I be better just leaving the windows open and allowing the fact that the engine is under the floor and in an area somewhat insulated by water ( coupled with using anti-freeze in the raw water system ) to avoid frost damage?

 

 

[ExSurveyor]

I have always run a small tube heater in the engine compartment and a heater in the centre cabin, with plugin thermostats, set at 4 degrees.

A dehumidifier in the galley on a timer,  10am to 4pm and the curtains open slightly on the sunny side.

All windows closed.

Water tank is drained and taps open. I have a tee with a valve set at the lowest accessible area of pipework to drain the pipework.

Last year it cost me about £75 in electricity over winter.

The big advantage is the boat is never cold and damp when we turn up to use it over winter and takes little effort to redo when we leave.

[wooster]

That sounds like a good plan for me, Mark. Do you know the size and model of the humidifier and heaters you use? I'm guessing your boat will have similar needs to mine in that regard.

[ExSurveyor]

I can't remember what make it is but it is about 10 years old now.

From memory it is 15 litre

They cost about £200 now.

The important point is to make sure that they reset if the power / timer goes off.

 

[wooster]

Re antifreezong the water cooling system. 

My boat is ex-hire. It has a nanni diesel and it had two reed filters. I’ve never been sure why but I always examine and clean out both before running the engine. Is it a common thing to have two? Do I just need to pour antifreeze down one ( keeping the other one closed) I assume it’s two entries into the same system but don’t know 🤔

Also I will be doing this on my own and it’s my first time. Will I have time (about 10 seconds) to switch off the engibe once  the antifreeze is emptied into the system or do I need to grab a neighbour?

Last if I do all this, do I need to add a heater to the engine bay as well? I don't see the point and I had a look tonight and there's hardly any room for putting one in without risking it toppling over or burning cables. I have three 4 ft 190W tubular heaters I bought today and I was going to just stick them in the cabin and leave the engine hatch open. Or should I close it? Either way what do you good folks say about having one in the bay?

[ExSurveyor]

I would think three 4'  heaters is a bit overkill. I use a 1' one in the engine bay with the cover shut as it is in the mid cabin. It doesn't take a lot to keep the temperature up above  freezing. I use a plug in thermastat set 5 degrees.  Bear in mind heat rises so won't do much for the engine bay if it is left open.

The cabin heater is set to 6 degrees and the doors are left open.

You are only aiming to raise the temperature just above freezing, anything else will eat up very expensive electricity.

My boat is ex hire and had a second stop start engine switch in the engine bay, might be worth checking for one.

 

[wooster]

Hi Mark

Yes I'm on the boat at the moment. I set up the heaters tonight and I sort of felt I'd got a bit carried away. Seemed like a necessary idea at the time. I'm hoping that each one will have to work less hard to keep the temperature at around 5 degrees or so. 

I will have a look in the morning for a socket. Do you reckon just keeping the antifreeze in the raw pipes would be enough for the engine though?

[Vaughan]

7 hours ago, wooster said:

My boat is ex-hire. It has a nanni diesel and it had two reed filters. I’ve never been sure why but I always examine and clean out both before running the engine. Is it a common thing to have two? Do I just need to pour antifreeze down one ( keeping the other one closed) I assume it’s two entries into the same system but don’t know 🤔

It is sensible to have two filters and they are normally sited one on either side of the keel.  They will both be connected together, somewhere before the raw water pump.  Turn both seacocks off and then pour antifreeze mix down one filter with the engine on tick-over.  If you have a hydrometer, test the antifreeze dilution to somewhere around minus 15º .

Something like a medium size watering can - about 5 litres - should do the trick.

[annv]

Hi Wooster You wont seize or harm the engine by running it with the raw water valve/valves turned of as the engine cooling system is separate, and should have a 50/50 antifreeze mixture. Think car if you run your car engine then block/cover the radiator over it wont over heat immediately it will only overheat if left covered for quite some time. The same with your boat the raw water flow through the heat exchanger does the same as your air flow through the radiator of your car. how ever you do need to switch of immediately all  the antifreeze mixture has disappeared from the raw water filter housing to prevent damage to the raw water impellor. Then as Vaughan said either remove the impeller and or tie it or a note to ignition key switch to remind you to replace the impellor AND open the hull valves before you (or perhaps someone else) uses the boat engine next. John

[annv]

Hi Just to add why do you need all those heaters remember hot air rises and it wont stop condensation. I just drain down, flush raw water with antifreeze and as Vaughan did open drawers doors allowing air to circulate i have solar air vents in the roof with air vents front and rear at deck level so dont need to leave windows open. I only use electric while on mooring when we are there, we often just use the boat as a static caravan £25=00 last year, i have a solar panel to maintain battery's and secondary double glazing to stop widows condensing and electric under blanket's on the beds to warm up in winter before we go to bed along with a immersion heater for hot water. Keep it simple. John

[wooster]

Thank you all very much. i know I've gong over the top with the heaters. Ah well ! Lesson learned I guess 🙄

What do I need to remove the impeller though? 

[ExSurveyor]

2 hours ago, wooster said:

Thank you all very much. i know I've gong over the top with the heaters. Ah well ! Lesson learned I guess 🙄

What do I need to remove the impeller though? 

If you kept the receipt you could change to a 1 foot and a 3 foot plus a couple of plug in thermastats.

[wooster]

Sadly i didn't . I've also screwed the get on and used them. Would a 1ft work? As far as I can make out they are only about 60w?

[ExSurveyor]

It works fine on mine as it is an inboard engine beneath the mid cabin bed so doesn't have a lot of heat loss. When I had a Calypso with a rear engine, under a hatch on the rear well I used an old quilt to tent over the engine with a 2' heater under it, in a metal cage to avoid fire from contact. Again on a plug in thermastat.

[wooster]

1 hour ago, ExSurveyor said:

It works fine on mine as it is an inboard engine beneath the mid cabin bed so doesn't have a lot of heat loss. When I had a Calypso with a rear engine, under a hatch on the rear well I used an old quilt to tent over the engine with a 2' heater under it, in a metal cage to avoid fire from contact. Again on a plug in thermastat.

Yeah,  mine is inboard under the mid-cabin floor so if I could keep the hatch shut it would probably work as well. Unfortunately, I'd need to have the hatch open to plug the heater into the mains. I did have a look today as I said but there's no other way that I could figure out.

[Vaughan]

18 hours ago, wooster said:

What do I need to remove the impeller though? 

A screwdriver!

When you take off the front plate, be very careful not to lose the little screws in the bilge. If you have to get new ones they must be genuine Jabsco spares as they use a special thread which does not correspond to metric or others.  If you try to put a different screw in you will wreck the threads and then it is a whole new water pump!

You can remove the impeller by placing a screwdriver about halfway down its central body and gently levering it out. If you have room, you can use one screwdriver each side. Be very careful not to damage the edges of the front plate of the pump as it is only brass and any gouges will later make the pump less efficient.

Inspect the front and back plates for wear. If badly worn they can be turned and re-used.  I always fit a new paper gasket, but the important thing is plenty of water pump grease, on the gasket as well as plenty on the impeller itself. Most chandlers sell a water pump grease called Morris 99.  Also good for grease caps on stern and rudder gland (if fitted).

[annv]

Hi Wooster If you drain/change the raw water in the boat there is no need to heat the engine during winter as there isn't any thing to left to freeze. So why do you need to heat it. When removing the screws on the impeller cover place a towel or similar to catch the screws if you drop them and use a perfect fitting screw driver to release the screws as they can easerly be damaged. If the impeller is a blue colour there is an argument that as it's made from  neoprene you dont have to remove it to maintain it's integrity. I dont remove mine every year i just replace it when it starts to split. John

[wooster]

Sorry I was away for a bit and didn't look on here. Am I removing the impeller simply because it will "rot" over the winter months? If I'm running the engine say every 4 weeks or so, do I still need to remove it?