Winterising Again

[MargeandParge]

The impeller sits in an egg shaped hole and the fins can distort if it dries out and are sat for a long time against the narrow part of the chamber 

I never take the impeller out only check or replace as necessary when I service the boat

However when I run the anti freeze through the cooling system I don't let the impeller draw air so it stays wet in the anti freeze 

We always check the boat in the winter and charge the AGM batteries they never take long and I just turn the engine on the starter motor about two compressions which will move the impeller within its housing. 

So our boat never gets left plugged in. I use a third anti freeze to water

You may only have one seacock or  valve that feeds both strainers if you close it or both if fitted after you take the lids off then the water in the feed pipes will go back to the broads  Then close the sea cock and run your anti freeze into the system through the open strainers. 

One word of warning don't force the sea cock as the last thing you want to do is damage it or even worse make it leak as it was a hire boat it may never have been closed . If the strainers are open they will not draw the water in but you will have to have the engine running when you put the antifreeze in.

On a friends boat because the seacock was seized we made a stopper out of a bolt two washers and some rubber like a sink plug put this in the strainer inlet and then you can merrily pour your anti freeze in without filling the marina. If you have to do this take the stopper out as soon as you have done the job and I always leave the strainer lid by the steering wheel. 

When you recomition make sure when the engine is running that after a short while you have clean water coming from the exhaust. Always good practice to check that after any start up at any time. 

Kindest Regards Marge and Parge 

 

 

 

 

[Vaughan]

Sounds good to me!

2 hours ago, MargeandParge said:

If the strainers are open they will not draw the water in

In fact the Broads type filters will always draw water with the cap off as most of the filter tube is designed to be below the water level outside.  The Vetus type bowl strainers are a different matter as they are way up high and great care must be taken to get a good seal when putting the lid back on.  If they draw a little bit of air then nothing happens.  I always put plenty of water pump grease on the rubber O ring seal.

The problem of sea cocks sticking is a very real one and great care is needed not to force them.  If you break it, that probably means hauling the boat out.  In this respect ball valves are less likely to jam than gate valves.

Don't forget that if your boat is stored ashore for the winter, the sea cocks must be left open to drain them out.  Otherwise they can easily freeze.

[Cheesey69]

As an observation, and for those who's sinks drain overboard, why do we have a trap in the drain pipe?

 

[MargeandParge]

27 minutes ago, Cheesey69 said:

As an observation, and for those who's sinks drain overboard, why do we have a trap in the drain pipe?

 

Recon it slows the spider's down a bit and stops the draught. 

Kindest Regards Marge and Parge 

[Vaughan]

1 hour ago, Cheesey69 said:

why do we have a trap in the drain pipe?

A lot of hire boats, especially Bounty, had their galleys fitted out with flat-pack kitchen units.  So I guess the kitchen sink came with a trap, so they fitted it.

[annv]

Hi most sinks are household size they have a large drain hole which requires a fitting to fit which has a grid in it, the easiest way is to fit a house hold one ie a u bend. They dont make a hose fitting with a grid that will fit a large house hold hole. Hence a u bend. John

[BroadAmbition]

We haven't fitted any traps to the three sinks onboard - Can't see the point.  Some of the hire boats we've been on don't have them either

Griff

[kpnut]

I only fitted them to the new sink and basin to stop the winter draught as I kept forgetting to put the plugs in to stop it. Now of course, I need to remember there’s water in them when I do my partial winterising after each winter visit. 

[Bikertov]

3 hours ago, kpnut said:

I only fitted them to the new sink and basin to stop the winter draught as I kept forgetting to put the plugs in to stop it. Now of course, I need to remember there’s water in them when I do my partial winterising after each winter visit. 

I wouldn't have thought it would be a problem, even if a U-bend or trap did freeze up ?

As it is not sealed and effectively open to atmosphere, surely the ice will just expand (and then contract) further along as it needs, and not cause any fractures ?

[kpnut]

4 minutes ago, Bikertov said:

I wouldn't have thought it would be a problem, even if a U-bend or trap did freeze up ?

As it is not sealed and effectively open to atmosphere, surely the ice will just expand (and then contract) further along as it needs, and not cause any fractures ?

Oh right.
I was just thinking like freeze-thaw weathering with water getting into a crack in a rock, freezing and breaking the rock, even though the top of the crack is open to the air. 

[Bikertov]

5 minutes ago, kpnut said:

Oh right.
I was just thinking like freeze-thaw weathering with water getting into a crack in a rock, freezing and breaking the rock, even though the top of the crack is open to the air. 

I might be wrong - just my thought on it !

[kpnut]

5 minutes ago, Bikertov said:

I might be wrong - just my thought on it !

Hopefully someone else will come along and tell us in that case. 

[ExSurveyor]

2 hours ago, kpnut said:

Hopefully someone else will come along and tell us in that case. 

Here I am 😁

As the waste pipe is open it would take a prolonged and deep freeze to ice up and if it did it wouldn't damage a S trap but theoretically could cause damage to a P trap.

I have never seen one frozen up either on a boat or in a domestic setting.

If you are worried just pour some salt down the hole and a splash of water to mix it. Much nicer than antifreeze.

The waste would be the easy one to thaw, bit of hot water dribbled down it would work.

[kpnut]

11 hours ago, ExSurveyor said:

Here I am 😁

Oh good😂

And thanks for the reassurance, from both you and Biker. 
I’ll just do the salt thing in that case. (although I do only use aqua safe antifreeze on the boat).

Now to learn how to change an impeller. 

[Vaughan]

12 minutes ago, kpnut said:

Now to learn how to change an impeller. 

Hopefully, the descriptions already on this thread, should do the trick!    

[Smoggy]

1 hour ago, kpnut said:

Now to learn how to change an impeller. 

Note the twist when you take the old one out and put the new one in twisted the same way although a new one should just flip over with no harm done.

Generally just a ring of screws on the pump cover to remove and gentle use of a screwdriver will prise the old one out, a smear of the glycerine that usually come with the new one around the inside of the housing before you push the new one in, a new gasket with a smear of grease so you can open it again and re-use the gasket if needed.

Check for water out the back when you fire it up again and jobs a goodun.

[kpnut]

Am I right that there are different size impellers? 
If so, the best thing I suppose is to do this one day when the chandlers is open, take it out, take it to the chandlers for the new one and buy a spare while there. 
I could have a go today, seeing as I’m sort of stuck inside with this weather, just to find it’s location but if I do something wrong, I’ll be stuck down fleet dyke, so I’m not risking that. 

[PaulN]

1 hour ago, kpnut said:

Am I right that there are different size impellers? 
If so, the best thing I suppose is to do this one day when the chandlers is open, take it out, take it to the chandlers for the new one and buy a spare while there. 
I could have a go today, seeing as I’m sort of stuck inside with this weather, just to find it’s location but if I do something wrong, I’ll be stuck down fleet dyke, so I’m not risking that. 

Hi Katie

I gave the engine make and serial number to Sonny Boulter and he looked it up on his computer and sold me one accordingly. He was correct too.

[Smoggy]

Post a pic of your engine bay and we'll soon point it out to you.

[PaulN]

1 hour ago, kpnut said:

Am I right that there are different size impellers? 
If so, the best thing I suppose is to do this one day when the chandlers is open, take it out, take it to the chandlers for the new one and buy a spare while there. 
I could have a go today, seeing as I’m sort of stuck inside with this weather, just to find it’s location but if I do something wrong, I’ll be stuck down fleet dyke, so I’m not risking that. 

If you are laying up for the winter, then it's best to change it at the beginning of the season, otherwise it sits static all winter with one fin bent over in the pump housing which is narrower at the water inlet to make a good seal.

[Karizma]

Talking of raw water pumps - I (think) have a Jabsco 3270-271 raw water pump on Karizma and in Feb 2022 (with taco reading 456 hours) I replaced the raw water Shaft Seal as the previous one had started leaking water.

I can't quite remember how I got the size of the Seal (might have been just by checking the dimensions of the one I removed) but I replaced it with a 'DPSM 16x28x7mm seal with Stainless Steel Garter Spring' from a bearing supplier off the internet.

Wind the clock forward to last month and I noticed that it had started leaking again after exactly 400 taco hours of engine running (taco now reading 856 hours). So it was time to strip it down again and give it a service. This time I thought I'd purchase an OEM Jabsco Shaft Seal (SP2701-21), as I didn't think the replacement I used lasted as long as I'd expected, and at the same time I thought I'd also 'treat' the pump to a new 'Wear Plate' (Jabsco 7883) and 'End Cover Face Plate' (Jabsco 11830) as these were worn.

Now the Wear Plate and End Cover Face Plate fitted perfectly, but I could not get the Jabsco Shaft Seal to fit - as it was too big to fit into the pump housing (though it fitted round the shaft).

After a little investigating here's what I've found:

• The Jabsco Shaft Seal has dimensions of 15x29x8mm (where as the one I took out is 16x28x7mm)
• The diameter of the shaft (taken from the Jabsco schematic rather than measuring mine, which I should have done!) is 16mm - i.e 1mm larger than the Jabsco Shaft Seal dimension - Is this normal to make sure you get a good seal?
• The one I'd put in before (and have just taken out) was 16x28x7mm - i.e the same size as the diameter of the shaft -  Could it be that the reason it had started leaking?

Any ideas why the OEM part wouldn't fit in the housing? Could there be another version of the pump that has a slightly smaller bore? (I was putting lots of force on it to try and get it in and it would't go!)

Could the original face plate which shows it to be a Jabsco 3270-271 be the wrong one?

 

[Smoggy]

The seal wouldn't fit as it bigger than the hole, simples...

I've used 1mm smaller seals to fit a worn shaft before.

[Vaughan]

1 hour ago, Karizma said:

 

This is a photo of a face plate where you can see the part numbers. etc., but you can also see the wear from the impeller.  In other words it has already been turned over twice and so it is knackered.

It looks as though your engine is a Perkins, if I am right?  In which case the wear in the shaft seals will be because the pump is not properly aligned with its drive shaft.  The raw water pump on a Perkins is driven from the front of the injector pump pinion, on the timing gears.

You need to remove the entire timing gear cover from the engine, leaving the pump attached to it, before you strip the pump to change the shaft seals.  That way, when you put it back, the pump shaft will still be properly aligned with the timing gears.  A misalignment will probably be what has caused the shaft seals to fail.

You need to ensure that the pump, when re-fitted, is properly aligned to the drive shaft and I suggest this is best done by a boatyard engineer.

[kpnut]

6 hours ago, PaulN said:

I gave the engine make and serial number to Sonny Boulter and he looked it up on his computer and sold me one accordingly. He was correct too.

If I can find the serial number I’ll try that. 

 

6 hours ago, Smoggy said:

Post a pic of your engine bay and we'll soon point it out to you.

Yep, might do that tomorrow if it’s not obvious. I know the general area to look!

6 hours ago, PaulN said:

If you are laying up for the winter, then it's best to change it at the beginning of the season, otherwise it sits static all winter with one fin bent over in the pump housing which is narrower at the water inlet to make a good seal

I usually use the boat all winter but she’s coming out of the water for 6 weeks or so soon, so (she says confidently!) I’ll take the impeller out once she’s out, and will then have time to sort it out. 

Of course, when the boat comes out, Paul R at the yard will say ‘don’t worry, we’ll see to it’ but I want to do it myself to learn. 

[Karizma]

1 hour ago, Vaughan said:

This is a photo of a face plate where you can see the part numbers. etc., but you can also see the wear from the impeller.  In other words it has already been turned over twice and so it is knackered.

Hi Vaughan .....

Sure was - the other side was worn just as badly, so well overdue a replacement. Thankfully it now has one and should allow the pump to work so much better.

1 hour ago, Vaughan said:

It looks as though your engine is a Perkins, if I am right? 

No. It's a Nanni - 4.190HE. I'm now hoping this is set up slightly differently to what you've described with the Perkins?