broads awards this year

[Guest]

......all I'm saying is you haven't got to agree with the awards but why try to destroy them when they do no harm.......

 

Every year this discussion topic re-emerges, and the NBO awards are defended almost exclusively by NBO members and Awards winners.

 

Their loyal support is commendable, as is the basic charitable concept, and the efforts of the organisers.

 

Vetchugger's post (3 before this one), is therefore quite enlightening, coming from someone who has actively supported them, and was met "with flat refusal and a degree of hostility" to his undoubtedly well meant suggestions for more openness in the voting numbers to enhance credibility.

 

So even though most of the awards process threads are now only visible to logged in members, even they are not allowed to see quantities of votes, only percentages.

[Oddfellow]

Having voting numbers would be beneficial, for sure, but the percentages are useful in themselves in lieu of the numbers.

 

There is transparency in the nomination process as all nominations are done by open forum posting as simple advanced search for postings by VetChugger will reveal, along with his suggestions and open responses for changes.

 

I did try attaching a link to the particular thread on NBO that VetChugger started in August this year suggesting a "none of the above" active abstention option, but the admin team here has blocked all such links. This is a real shame as we appear to be allowed to discuss, knock and defend another forum openly, but not provide direct links to it by way of demonstration. Might I suggest that this restriction is removed so that we have can enjoy a level playing field here?

 

 

Few things are perfect and, as has been said plenty of times above but ignored by most others with a different view, join the forum (if you're not already a member) and begin a discussion on changes and improvements.

 

NBN no longer hosts the awards and so it is not the place to throw stones. If you want to change things, why not simply go to the right place to do it? My experience is that the main people on the forum are quite open to constructive ideas.

[JennyMorgan]

So this annual topic trundles on and on, so I shall add to it! 

 

Let's be clear, I have no objection to the NBO hosting and promoting the NBO Awards, for that is what they really are. For the NBO to call their awards the Broads Awards is both misleading and overly pretentious. Were they called the NBO Awards then I doubt very much that there would be this annual shrill of indignation on other forums, indeed they could then have some credibility and might even become more relevant. 

 

Like some I well remember when the stats were either hacked or inadvertently released, that made for interesting and amusing reading!

 

Andy, I have no interest in the NBO, for personal reasons, nor am I really that bothered whether they wish improve their image or not so I won't be posting my thoughts over there but thanks for the suggestion. However, should they wisely take heed of comments on here & NBF then good luck to them, some wise counsel out here in the real world!

[MauriceMynah]

Now, if I've understood things correctly the problem is more to do with the name. "The NBO Broads awards" seems to be acceptable where "the Broads awards" rather less so (irrespective of the NBO logo being prominently featured).

 

This reminds me of the tale about the fish shop and the Business consultant.

 

A Business consultant  was passing a fish shop as the owner put out a sign saying "Fresh fish sold here"

The consultant said "Well you're hardly going to say "Stale fish sold here", the word 'fresh' is pointless."

The owner wiped off the word fresh but that didn't satisfy the consultant who added "You're not planning on giving them away nor is anyone expecting you to. The word 'sold' is unnecessary".

The owner wiped the word 'sold' from the sign and looked up at the man.

"Still not right! Your shop is here, the fish are here, we can all see that. Why do you need your sign to say "Here" It's unnecessary."

The owner threw his eyes skywards and wiped off the word "here".

He and the fellow looked at each other and then at the sign that now had just one word on it..."Fish".

Business consultant smiled and said "You have "fish written on the window, and over your door. Those slippery silver things on the slab couldn't be anything other than fish, we don't need telling that. Still, up to you!"

The shop owner wiped the word "Fish" off the board which was now blank so he took it back inside the shop. The business consultant rubbed his hands together in self satisfaction and carried on his way.

Sadly, the fish shop didn't get any more customers and went out of business!

[Matt]

There has been more written on this forum about another forums awards than has been written on that forum itself!

[littlesprite]

I think I will just give in and admit defeat, I will suggest that next year the awards are renamed.

 

The NBO (Norfolk Broads Organisation) Awards.

 

Sorry I'll get my hard hat.

[Guest]

Having voting numbers would be beneficial, for sure, but the percentages are useful in themselves in lieu of the numbers.

 

There is transparency in the nomination process as all nominations are done by open forum posting......

 

 

With all due respect Andy, hiding the voting numbers behind percentages is at the very root of the concerns about the credibility of the results.

 

Yes, the nominations process was indeed visible to non members while it was running, with what appeared to be very few posts, and then no summary of how many nominations were received either.

 

There are many millions of visitors to the Broads each year, so even if every "member" of every Broads Forum actively participated, it would still be a microscopic sample of true Public opinion.

 

Even newspapers like the EDP qualify their awards scheme with the prefix "EDP".

[JennyMorgan]

Hear, hear!

[Baitrunner]

Hey, why don't we all just carry on posting nice things about boatyards, repair services, pubs etc etc. That way we don't need to get caught up in the awards arguments and will encourage people to join th eforum to find information about the nice people and places on the Broads?

 

OK no one gets a nice plaque, but I would be more inclined to hire a boat from "Berts boats" if I read good things about them rather than seeing they won an award (once).

 

As mentioned by someone else a lot of people come here once or twice in their lifetimes so would not be interested in posting or voting, but might read a posting to help them decide.

 

Oh IMHO

[VetChugger]

Just a final comment. I'd forgotten that I'd suggested a "None Of The Above" category! It seemed to me more than a little odd and offside that, in order to take part, you have to vote for one of the so called short listed business's. Even in national and local elections abstentions are counted although often referred to as spoilt papers. To put it more plainly, there was at least one section where I would not have chosen to use ANY of the three options!

[Guest]

Hey, why don't we all just carry on posting nice things about boatyards, repair services, pubs etc etc. That way we don't need to get caught up in the awards arguments and will encourage people to join th eforum to find information about the nice people and places on the Broads?

 

OK no one gets a nice plaque, but I would be more inclined to hire a boat from "Berts boats" if I read good things about them rather than seeing they won an award (once).

 

As mentioned by someone else a lot of people come here once or twice in their lifetimes so would not be interested in posting or voting, but might read a posting to help them decide.

 

Oh IMHO

 

That was my impression of  why the NBF and the NBN  with many more members, both decided that even for them, judging businesses and awarding certificates was "punching above their weight".

 

As you say, a detailed personal experience recommendation can be very good for a business, and is far more informative than a wall certificate of unknown provenance.

[650xs]

blimmey i wish i had not mention it ....................

 

 

as per norm all the old girls are out gain to out wit each other .......

 

 

i just simple ask .........................

 

 

blimmey .....................

 

 

best remove the whole thang then ill goo and upset some other folk...

 

 

 

sorry to cause offence and up set ...............

 

 

orf my land ..........................

 

 

only my views of coarse .............

[NorfolkNog]

Hi Jon

Don't worry about it, perfectly reasonable question to ask

At least it created some debate! Don't be put 'orf

[Oddfellow]

I find myself agreeing with many of the points made here.

 

I defend because I am honoured to be moninated as I do not ask or expect to be.

 

The NBO Broads Awards (as it is officially called and commonly shortened) is clearly the NBO Broads Awards (as is the EDP VisitNorfolk ident as supplied above)

 

Sorry for the poor rendition of the image. 

 

I don't know why the nomination process appears to dissappear once nominations close, but a search for the word "nominate" shows that they the nominations are available to view. I know that this is not ideal, but in lieu of anything else.

 

Strow said ...

 

That was my impression of  why the NBF and the NBN  with many more members, both decided that even for them, judging businesses and awarding certificates was "punching above their weight".

As an observation and certainly not the opening of a separate discussion, the punching above the weight point never stopped NBF being the "official" forum. Yes, I know that this has been discussed many times with the NBF and elsewhere, but nothing changed over the 10 years and apparent 10,800 members.

 

I have opened a thread over on NBO suggesting that some changes are considered and I hope some of the criticsms can be addressed so that the awards can become more credible in the future.

 

The NBO is the place to suggest change now.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JennyMorgan]

Andy, I'm pleased that you are suggesting change over on the NBO.

 

Even council elections give voting numbers, I think that only right and proper. A previous release of statistics showed a low vote to some winners, possibly the owner & his wife, their son . . . . . . . . . well, I'm sure that you get my drift. 50% of 6 is only 3, hardly convincing.

 

Your certificate hardly highlights NBO in comparison to Broads Awards! 

 

Nothing is ever perfect so I hope that your advice is heeded.

 

Re that 'Official' tag, just for the record it hasn't been in use for ten years & I did question the forum owner and made my feelings known, I agree that his use of that term is unwarranted. 

 

Can't think of any criticisms that I can aim at the NBN though!! Had the NBN been organising said awards then I doubt that I would be here now. The awards are well intended but for me they are tacky.

[Guest]

......The NBO Broads Awards (as it is officially called and commonly shortened) is clearly the NBO Broads Awards (as is the EDP VisitNorfolk ident as supplied above)....

 

Again, with all due respect Andy, that's another crucial point about peoples concerns over mis-representation.

 

Aside from the logo, I don't remember ever seeing it abbreviated as "the NBO Broads Awards".

 

Even the official NBO poster for businesses to request nominations from their customers, shortens it to "the Broads Awards" five times, as is the URL for the website itself.

[Guest]

......Re that 'Official' tag, just for the record it hasn't been in use for ten years & I did question the forum owner and made my feelings known, I agree that his use of that term is unwarranted.......

 

Andy is quite right though Peter, it is still is being used on the NBF, hidden away in each HTML "page title tag", so that it appears in search results and browser headings. 

[JennyMorgan]

I know that it is, but in fairness to the user, it is a comparatively recent phenomenon. I agree, its use is misleading, shouldn't be used.

 

Perhaps I worded my previous comment badly.

[Oddfellow]

Agreed, Strow.

However, lengthening urls and never abbreviating would make for a much more klunky text and promote errors in web site entry.

I dont know if it is deliberate or simply abbreviated to ease reading/entry.

The NBO logo is hardly hidden from view on the award plaque, though. For me, the most prominent thing is the sponsor's logo!

[jillR]

hi andy

im sure it cant be nice for you to hear criticism of the organisation that

gave you an award but im sure many who see it displayed at your yard will

not realise how little it is worth and the other places that I have seen

them displayed obviously feel the same.

I was in one very well thought of place that was happily displaying

prominent notice asking for patrons to vote. I asked the owner if

they had checked the award givers out and they admitted they had and

found the nbo forum rather sad and little used,

but they were still happy to ask for votes.

companies are obviously desperate to hold on to anything that might aid

their survival but when inferior companies are given awards it devalues

any faith newcomers have in recommendations given by valid sources.

im sure the added membership to the nbo will be very welcome for them and

perhaps some of them may stay and join in this time, they are having plenty

of advertising here as well so we will see.

I have found ethics are one of the main keys to good forums.

camaraderie is all well and good but members need to understand and have

faith in the team.

[JennyMorgan]

I have found ethics are one of the main keys to good forums.

camaraderie is all well and good but members need to understand and have

faith in the team.

  

 

Exactly and probably why a number of us joined NBN.

[Guest]

......I have opened a thread over on NBO suggesting that some changes are considered and I hope some of the criticsms can be addressed so that the awards can become more credible in the future......

 

I see your direct question about displaying actual voting numbers has been completely sidestepped without any explanation Andy.

 

Also, the results have just been "published" as an image, so even they are not visible to the public, as only logged-in members can see them.

[Oddfellow]

You lot are really negative - Gill_R in particular. It's hardly terribly nice to approach a moninee and try to enforce upon them the low value of the award that someone has nominated them for. What must that business owner have thought of you, knocking the little bit of recommendation that he's received?

 

At its heart, this is a bunch of people giving their time for absolutely no financial reward for something that they are passionate about. The mention of ethics is a laughable when discussing broads forums when you consider the length of time that it's taken for some to jump ship from the one place that did nothing (and still don't) in relation to numbers, both preceeded by £ signs or superseeded by the word "Members". (Please note, I have absolutely no quarrel with NBN except that I remain bemused that we are allowed to discuss this, but not link to it because of a clause in the TOS which is something that I think needs adressing either by removing the link ban or banning the discussion, either would be a fair solution.)

 

The awards event raised £120 in charitable donation via the raffle for Scotties Litte Soldiers and brought people together.

 

Gill_R, the organisation didn't give me an award, my customers who voted for me did. Simple as that.

 

I don't know the wheres and whyfores of what's gone on in the past and I am not sure I want to. I am aware that there are three forums partly because of the word "ethics" that has already been used here and, I believe, personality clashes.  This is in the past, the forums are separate places with some having members that belong to all three and in some cases with certain forums having banned others in order to stifle comment but which also prevents a full discussion. 

 

I find it extremely dissapointing that people choose to throw stones from the sidelines and refuse to properly input into the debate in its rightful place on NBO. Whatever reasons have been (or might be) cited for not contributing to the debate in the right place, it is rather churlish to continue critisicsing it in a forum that has no say in the future of the awards.

 

There is now a thread in the right place and I would invite anybody that has some constructive input to make it on the NBO.

[Guest]

I've been very careful to never insult the charitable intention of the organisers Andy.

 

The concept of rewarding the best businesses is undeniably a good thing, as long as it done openly so that it has genuine value.

 

The problem remains again, after another yearly discussion on the subject, the public cannot even see a list of the winners on the website, let alone how many votes were cast, which you admitted was an argument "difficult to defend" and yet your polite enquiry was completely ignored.

 

After many years the size of the electorate is still clothed in secrecy, even to NBO members.

 

All questions are invariably responded to with suggestions of joining the forum and participating. 

 

The only Publicly visible recognition to an award winner is the wall certificate in their premises.

[Oddfellow]

It all sounds so sinister, Strow. We all know that NBO has a relatively low active membership, as did forum before the exodus and we also know that the 10+k members elsewhere is a hugely misrepresentative figure.

 

I think, if you read this thread from a position such as NBO's admin, the first thing you will feel is defensive. There are a lot of people on here being pretty scathing of the awards and if you're one that's involved in them, it's difficult not to be defensive. But, still, I agree, some things ought to be reviewed and as you are clearly following the thread on NBO, you will see that I am keen to put my support to change.

 

 

All questions are invariably responded to with suggestions of joining the forum and participating.

 

And why shouldn't you?

 

It is extremely difficult not to agree with this sentiment. Sniping from the sidelines when you're all perfectly welcome to debate it in the only place that can truly bring about changes  is unhelpful and unlikely to be effective. It's like throwing rocks at an unarmed man from the safety of a shelter; it hardly strengthens your moral position.

 

So far, only VetChugger has done this. What is so wrong with discussing a topic that is inherrently part of the NBO on the NBO?