Lord Roberts

[teadaemon]

Hi thanks for the info, I know now where Turners was. I dont know of Janca, but I did know Spray, she lived in our wet shed for years, we did a fair bit of work on her in that time, she was owned by two doctors if my memory serves me correctly, she was very well looked after then.

My Mums house was used in Swallows and Amazons, it was the house where the twins Port and Starboard lived, the BBC painted it from blue to black and it has been ever since. they also filmed some kind of court room scene in one of the rooms, you can tell as the door handle opens upside down! The white rat or hamster or whatever it was lived there for the duration of the filming!!!

That was a long time ago, I have never seen it since it was on telly as we didnt have a video!

It's been released on DVD (with the title 'Swallows and Amazons Forever', despite neither Coot Club or The Big Six featuring either Swallows or Amazons) , I think I got our copy from play.com for about £6.

[AdnamsGirl]

Hi

I came across another news snippet on the Lord Roberts .... I am not entirely sure of the exact date, but beileve that it's c1975-77. It seems that there were plans to ship her off to a museum in Lancashire.

[marshman]

Hey thats interesting. But like many ideas concerning wherries it was in retrospect, pretty fanciful. So much so I am not sure even the museum got off the ground and the Lord Roberts remained in Norfolk!!!

For those interested Albion was relaunched yesterday after more overwinter work and looks even better . Those of you who know her will be well aware that before last winter and her new keel she had reverse sheer!!!!! The new keel improved this drastically and the work this winter has enhanced it further - indeed to the extent she is now close to her original shape which can be seen from early pictures.

[AdnamsGirl]

I think the best place to see some wherry remains is Surlingham Broad. At low tide you will see the skeletal remains of several of them poking up through the waters surface ... I have got some photos somewhere which I will see if I can find. The link to the Google map below shows exactly where that graveyard is:

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&ll=52.615524,1.429006&spn=0.00486,0.008937&t=h&z=17&msid=106169224726842169133.0004613fea9a404721c14

I think that there are also supposed to be some on Rockland Broad? .... I haven't noticed these those. There certainly are others dotted around, but I think that a lot of them were used to shore up banks etc and you won't really see very much now, if anything. There is certainly at least one at Barton, and if you know where to look, you can apparently still see Dragon's tabernacle at Oulton.

The remains of a wherry were found at Womack staithe in 2006 when they were renewing the quay heading - you can see some pictures of that on the Ludham Community Archive website:

http://www.ludhamarchive.org.uk/interwh.htm

[C.Ricko]

you can see a wherry on google earth on the Ranworth broad side of the spit between that and Malthouse broad I think it is the Belle but I am sure someone will correct me. coulld be the Elle but she was small (I think) The picture has been updated since I last looked, the water was lower and a wherry was sailing towards the Bure on the other side, pity that image has gone now....

[marshman]

Yes Clive is right - I can remember seeing in my youth those wrecks at Ranworth where the green buoys are. Maud was "buried" there.

Sue there is a list somewhere but be blowed if i can find it!!! Certainly I have seen a diagram of the ones at Rockland including names but as time goes on they sink lower and rot away even more!!!

Surlinham Broad certainly used to have more but these were broken up and cleared relatively recently - well perhaps 20 years ago!!!!!!

Interesting topic but my immediate concern is to keep "Albion" alive and kicking!!!! Thank goodness she survives and is in good heart at the moment.

[C.Ricko]

Marshman said..

" as time goes on they sink lower and rot away even more!!!"

Surely the lower they get the longer they will be preserved? Wood rots where it is damp and the Oxygen gets to it, like quay headding, I have never seen a piece of piling rotten below the water line, look what is being pulled out of the Ant and being left at Ludham bridge.

perhaps the main preaditor is worm?

With Albion and Maud, surely we need just one more so there will be 1st 2nd and 3rd when the wherry racing resumes

[AdnamsGirl]

There is also apparently a large wherry graveyard on the Yare .... just below Postwick Bridge is a large, crumbling wooden dolphin (see Google maps link below - area marked by a place marker) and behind this is where they dug out the Norfolk Keel. There are (were) the remains of dozens of other wherries here.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?ie=UTF8&hl=en&msa=0&ll=52.618506,1.376137&spn=0.001215,0.002234&t=h&z=19&msid=106169224726842169133.00046142121d1942b9f4e

There are also the remains of some wherries on the main River at Brundall - on the left hand bank, a short way upstream from the Southern entrance to Surlingham Broad.

Marshman ... if you do find that list then I would be very interested to see it too!

[C.Ricko]

Sue, better make the hunt at low tide

The wherry Lord Roberts used to belong to the Thane family, Paul Thane is a piling/ dredgeing contractor.

ps Happy birthday Sue

[marshman]

Clive is of course right on both issues!!! Sinking the old bits does preserve them and actually prevents further deterioration although I am sure over a period some damage must occur one way or another. The Thain's were indeed the last owner of the Lord Roberts but whether this was in her sailing days I am not sure as in her last role she was converted to a moterised barge and used for dredging spoil disposal.

Sue - I am sure I have seen that diagram of the wrecks lining Rockland Dyke but blowed if I can remember where!!!! Its certainly not where I thought it might be but I will store it away and should i come across it you and Carol will be amongst the first to know!!! Of course it might also be a fanciful memory of an old man without any truth at all.

To be honest whilst this topic about the Lord Roberts is of huge interest, of greater significance to the here and now is to ensure that Broadland manages to retain and restore whats left.

Also to anyone who is local the NWT are hosting a talk by Peter Bower of the Wherry Charter trust on Wherries generally in Ingham Village Hall on Friday 13th February at 7.45pm - sorry about the advertising!!!!!!

[AdnamsGirl]

Hi

Pete Sanders has kindly given me permission to publish the photos of The Lord Roberts that I metnioned earlier in the thread, on my website. They were taken in 1983, shortly after she had been refloated and taken from Womack to Wroxham. Just scroll down to the 5th picture from the top:

http://www.broadlandmemories.co.uk/page89.html#sanders_roberts

I have also managed to get my own collection of photos c1905 on .... lots more wherry pics amongst those including one which features 13 wherries crossing Breydon together:

http://www.broadlandmemories.co.uk/page156.html#gingell_1905

Carol

[AdnamsGirl]

If anyone is interested, a copy of the Robert Malster book "Wherries & Waterways" has just cropped up on Ebay .... a highly recommended read!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Robert-Malster-Wherries-and-Waterways-1978-HB_W0QQitemZ120372528518QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Books_NonFictionBooks_NonFictionBooks_SM?hash=item120372528518&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1683%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318

Happy bidding!

[AdnamsGirl]

There are several copies for sale on Amazon through other sellers ... four of which are under £10 ..... that is a bargain! I have seen them go for £20 to £40 in the past!!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/offer-listing/0900963301/ref=dp_olp_used/280-9061494-2008953?ie=UTF8&qid=1233664659&sr=1-1&condition=used

Carol

[Guest]

A book I enjoyed reading - Christmas present from the wife - is Herbert Woods a Famous Broadland Pioneer. Very interesting account of early days of the hire boat industry with some nice photos as well, written by Jennifer, one of Herbert's daughters. It was bought from the Museum of the Broads in September, price 12.95.

Full details: Herberyt Woods A Famous Broadland Pioneer by Jennifer woods. Published by Captains Locker Publications, PO Box 15181, Tauranga. New Zealand. ISBN 0473 08945 9.

Regards

Geoff Pethick

[AdnamsGirl]

Hi geoff

Yes, that is another very interesting book! I am intending to add a list of books on various aspects of Broadlands history to the newly created "Further Reading" section on BM .... but maybe we should start a "Books On Broadland's History" thread on here? There have been a lot of fascinating books published over the years and I would be keen to know of others that people have read that I might not know about.

Coincidently, ther postman has just this minute delivered another wherry related book to me - "Our Wherry In Wendish Lands" written by HM Doughty in 1891 which is an account of his trip through Holland and up to Bohemia on the Norfolk Wherry "Gipsy". Not an original copy mind you ... a reprint from 1985!

[harrier]

Sorry to bump up a rather old conversation, but I was reading it with interest, as I am rather obsessed with Norfolk Wherries, and I note that Carol suggests that it might be cheaper to build a new one than restore one of the sunken wherries. Which made me wonder: how much do you reckon it would cost to build a new Norfolk Wherry (assuming materials only, and not labour)? Thanks.

[Vaughan]

First, you would have to find the right wood, including suitable "crooks" for all the "grown" oak frames, then lay it down and season it for several years.

Just before Clifford Allen of Coltishall sold his boatyard, in 1976, he showed me round his boat sheds.  He had built one of the last wherries, the Gleaner, and laid down in the sheds was all the wood needed to build another like her.  Clifford said he was only waiting for a customer to come along!

I always wondered what happened to all that timber, when the premises went up for auction.

[marshman]

Never mind the cost, it would be impossible to even get the straight wood these days in that kind of quantity, and as Vaughan said, there would be no timber specially grown for the frames which would all have to be laminated - more cost!

You would have to laminate the mast too and finally get hold of the sailcloth - stuff doesn't grow on trees!!!

The biggest problem however, would be looking after her and setting up the necessary organisation, and finding the ongoing funding and especially volunteers - people these days are just not interested -  they are all busy doing something else.

In any case what would you build? Why build a big wherry like Albion or Maud -  more typical ,and easier, build a smaller one! They weren't all big - there are plenty of records showing much smaller ones, and many of perhaps 40' and even smaller

[oldgregg]

I seem to remember hearing that White Moth cost £150,000 to rebuild in the late eighties.

Anyone that saw her in Colin Facey's shed during that rebuild will know that VERY little original timber remained - I think essentially the keel is original, but pretty much everything else was replaced.

Having myself stood in what was at the time essentially a massive half-decker and being surrounded by new timber everywhere, I'd say White Moth is the closest anyone has come to building a Wherry in 'recent' times.

A quick RPI check suggests that £150K in 1987 is north of half a million notes nowadays. And that's assuming you can find someone who can / will build one.

[floydraser]

We could always make one in fibreglass?

Ok, ok, I'm going....

[Smoggy]

37 minutes ago, floydraser said:

We could always make one in fibreglass?

Ok, ok, I'm going....

Someone talking sense at last!

[Bikertov]

46 minutes ago, floydraser said:

We could always make one in fibreglass?

Ok, ok, I'm going....

And put in a Nanni instead of unreliable sails ?

[Smoggy]

New age wherry company coming soon.

[floydraser]

1 hour ago, Bikertov said:

And put in a Nanni instead of unreliable sails ?

Nah, big ol' Bolinder single. Thump, thump, thump, thump........

[floydraser]

Joking apart, I could see the appeal of a reproduction wherry on the Broads more than a repro Dutch barge or narrow boat.

But on the subject of wood: I owned a 1936 MG SA which had an ash frame. Well it would have had at the start but it had rotted away by the time I rescued it. On researching the frame building process it seems that a lot of wood was actually wasted in that a lot was carved away to achieve a certain shape. Would it be the same for boat building and would it an acceptable use of wood these days?