Life jackets

[JennyMorgan]

Re stern/bathing platforms perhaps this is the answer:

http://www.goodchildmarine.co.uk/commercial-gallery/retrofit-man-over-board-platform/

 

Falling in is easy, getting out is not. Indeed on many motor boats it's nigh on impossible. Perhaps this is a subject that we should discuss? With far too many of us being far less fit than we should be, especially being overweight, recovery of a casualty is sometimes no easy task. As my wife has asked, more than once, if I were to fall in how on earth would she hoist me out? Once upon a time I could glibly answer that I could pull myself out on the bobstay, the chain under the bowsprit, but those days have regretfully passed! How would you get out?

[Guest]

Sensible and simple stern platforms already exist, even on lowly Broads dayboats, like this one from Barnes.

 

The often ridiculed "bathing platform" is a far greater asset than it's trendy Gin Palace  name implies.

 

They are perfectly adapted for Broads use, making stern-too mooring a doddle, as well as MOB recovery.

 

Great for fish landing and kayak launching too.

 

 

[LadyPatricia]

The point of getting back onboard has got me thinking now.

Are there any 'emergency' ladder type things available on the market? A sort of one size fits all type of thing

Steve

[Guest]

The point of getting back onboard has got me thinking now.

Are there any 'emergency' ladder type things available on the market? A sort of one size fits all type of thing

Steve

 

The answer to that depends a lot on anyone's idea of what an "emergency" ladder is Steve.

 

• one that is always deployable, from the water, for self-rescue.
• or one that is carried aboard and quickly hooked on, for someone onboard to help someone get back in,
• or, most tricky of all, something to help get a heavy, or incapacitated person back aboard the average high free-board boat.

The self-rescue option has a number of propriety products available, consisting of a rolled up ladder in a bag permanently attached to the side of the boat. A cord or strap dangles down to almost water level, so that the MOB can pull that, which releases the ladder downwards, into the water. Not ideal, but it does make self-rescue possible, and is highly recommended for lone-sailors.

 

http://www.piplers.co.uk/emergency-ladder-134cm

 

The second option is simply accomplished by a conventional hook on boarding ladder, but it needs someone aboard to do it, and it doesn't help much if the person in the water is incapacitated.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=boarding+ladder&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=JYKyVKi4HIjmaMC-gYgE#q=boarding+ladder&tbm=shop

 

The last option is the best, though unfortunately the hardest to retro-fit if the boat is not already designed with a bathing platform. A level platform, at almost water level, where even an unconscious life-jacket wearer can be easily dragged aboard.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=bathing+platform&biw=1031&bih=544&tbm=isch&source=lnms&sa=X&ei=R4KyVKutNIzWasHqgOgB&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ

[JennyMorgan]

Strow and I have debated this almost ad nauseum. He's a great fan of bathing platforms, I'm not. My one gripe is in stern mooring the platform can easily, and I've seen it happen, snag under a jetty or key-heading resulting in damage or possibly even a sinking. Personally I would like to see simple steps molded into a boat's transom, could be a doddle to DIY.

[Guest]

......My one gripe is in stern mooring the platform can easily, and I've seen it happen, snag under a jetty or key-heading resulting in damage or possibly even a sinking......

 

It's just a question of careful design Peter, as Barnes seem to have done.

 

If you look closely at the stern of their dayboat picture that I posted,you'll see that there is no overhang at all, the hull is quite conventional, it's just the above waterline moulding that incorporates the bathing platform. The upper sides are then carefully sloped, to avoid the danger of it getting caught underneath a hollow quay heading.

 

A design principle that many manufacturers have adopted.

 

Whenever the word "platform" is mentioned, people can often only visualise something "sticking out".....

[Wussername]

I mentioned in a post several weeks ago where a lady was very nearly decapitated at Ranworth when she fell from a bathing platform during a reversing procedure, due to the lack of grab rails.

I think that I tend to fall in the anti platform brigade. I think that they are a gimmick, suited perhaps to the Mediterranean, certainly not the Broads. They do not lend themselves to stern mooring. I would suggest that many people reading this post would find it physically challenging to board a boat, by using a bathing platform simply because you lack the upper body strength to lever yourself from the water onto the platform. Your partner could find it equally challenging to help you.

Why? Because you are not as young as you used to be. Perhaps a little overweight. Back problem?

[Guest]

......I think that I tend to fall in the anti platform brigade. I think that they are a gimmick, suited perhaps to the Mediterranean, certainly not the Broads. They do not lend themselves to stern mooring.......

 

I find it quite surprising that the "anti platform brigade" have such an intense dislike for boats with that facility.

 

Each to our own taste though, but I think you're quite wrong with them being a gimmick and unsuited to the Broads.

 

Almost all new hire builds incorporate the feature, and the Broads most respected builders like Haynes also use them universally now, and most of their craft are designed specifically for the Broads.

 

For the life of me, I can't understand the concept that they are unsuited to stern to mooring.

 

That is the very purpose most were designed for, rather than just "bathing".

 

Practically every new Marina berth in the world is configured for stern to mooring, it's the only way to maximise capacity, so the boat designers have gone over to stern platforms wholesale.

 

Here's one of Haynes latest, cruising quietly along a Broadland river. How can it possibly be described as "unsuited" to the Broads ?

[Baitrunner]

Strowager,

    I would like the last option please - does it come with those incentives to get out of the water fast as well?    

 

Seriously, I take old Wussernames points, but am a swim platform fan as I have one (with a massive grab rail). Certainly dead easy for access on a pontoon mooring and never had a problem stern on (hope I don't eat my words). Even my 70yo mother in law on crutches can get on and off.

 

I have a built in fold out ladder on it as well. but not sure if I was in the water I would be able to get it out (so to speak).

 

I also have a basic hook on rope ladder (like the ones in the link, but not in the bag) that we have used to get on/off the boat at places like Gt Yarmouth or Berney Arms when the tide is low. Hook it over the mooring posts. It's not easy to climb when your dry and not trying to get out of the water in sodden clothes.

 

I like the swim platforms that can be raised or lowered, but they are expensive and obviously would not fit/suit everyboat.

 

Even on my swim platform I doubt I would be able to climb out after falling in and even with the ladder if you get back a bit exhausted, fully clothed, soaking wet, cold - you would have to be fairly fit and able to climb back out.

 

We are a bad example as we don't always wear our life jackets, but need to start being more forceful with my crew this year on this matter. Having said that, I purposely went for self inflating jackets with the crotch strap and use it when we do wear them. My expectation is if I went in, I would crack the nut or panic and forget to inflate the thing.

 

Watersports are different though, and for canoeing, wind surfing etc a slim buoyancy jacket is a must.

 

I am not a keen sailor (done some, but not my forte) and will defer to the experts on that subject - but if single handed, alone, on the sea i would think self inflating would be the norm - in a race on the broads with people to help if you are in trouble maybe the buoyancy aid works best - I am thinking on a saily there is a good chance of getting a whack on the nut from the boom or as you go in.

 

Plenty of choices though for all sports and preferences and anything has to be better than nothing.

 

So if it suits, use it.

[Guest]

I agree with everything you've said there Mark, and the incentives on option 3...

 

I've owned most small to medium sized cruiser hull designs over the years, and only my current boat has on OEM rear platform built in to the hull design.

 

I can confidently say now that I would never go back to a design without one.

 

Aside from the potentially lifesaving ability to retrieve a heavy/unconscious person from the water, the practical benefits to other water-born pursuits have to be experienced to be appreciated, (or even maybe realised).

 

Landing a big pike, (and carefully releasing it again) is so much easier with a platform when mudweighted away from the bank, or even up against the reeds.

 

Climbing in and out of a kayak is so much safer at water level too, rather than clambering down from the average deck level.

 

My permanent hinged ladder is deployable from the water, so self rescue becomes as easy as possible, with rigid wooden steps extending about three feet below water level.

[JennyMorgan]

Strow wrote:

 

 

Here's one of Haynes latest, cruising quietly along a Broadland river. How can it possibly be described as "unsuited" to the Broads ?

 

Because it won't pass under Potter or Beccles Bridges!

[Guest]

How many boats built for the Broads in the last 20 years can get under Potter bridge Peter ?  ( Hire or private).....

 

p.s.     the specific objection being queried was the platform stern, alledgedly  "not suited to the Broads".

[JennyMorgan]

I met a gentleman at Beccles last year who had suffered over £400.00 of damage to his bathing platform when he had previously moored there. Marina moorings tend to rise and fall with the tide in tandem with moored boats. 

[Baitrunner]

Maybe he just needed a lesson in mooring or made a mistake - we all have I am sure overlooked something in the past. I am doing my Day Skipper course at the moment and the stories they tell you of very well qualified and experienced sailors making mistakes by rushing/not following the guidelines are laughable until they become expensive or worse still cause death or injury.

 

I wonder how many non swim platform boats have suffered damage whilst stern on mooring?

 

Side on mooring can be just as dangerous with a rise and fall of tide as well, but it's all about being aware of it and trying to avoid any mistakes.

 

I'll own up here - I have almost been caught out with the rubbing strip catching on the quay heading on a rise and fall, fenders not low enough on a very high tide at Cantley (you can ride over the quay heading when this happens). Fortunately I was on the boat and caught it in time and no damage done - different matter if I had been away from the boat. I'll mention the unfortunate boat that sank just before Christmas which I believe was side on?

 

I wonder what the specific circumstances were of the guy who damaged his swim platform?

[Guest]

Quite an unlucky chap then Peter,

 

.....being the only one you know about, with so many stern platforms around.

[Guest]

......I wonder what the specific circumstances were of the guy who damaged his swim platform?

 

Good question Mark.....

[Wussername]

I would be happy to moor a craft with a swim platform on say Salhouse broad, Ranworth, Womack,stern on, in fact most of the Northern Rivers, excluding of course the more tidal area's.

With regard to the southern rivers I would feel less

happy, especially overnight.

In fact there is one very reputable hire company in Brundall, which has craft with platforms, who state as part of their conditions of hire that stern on mooring is NOT allowed.

Hence my comment that some boats with platforms do not "lend themselves" to the Broads in general.

Old Wussername

[Baitrunner]

Ahh that one.

 

Well the chap I helped out last year with his jolly nice cruiser from said reputable hire company had no hammer for his pegs when he tried to moor at Rockland, no map (and after I gave him one took off to Gt Yarmouth at about 4pm with no idea of the tide state) and no fenders on the swim platform (I have fitted some so it can be done very easily). Now would I want him stern mooring my boat? In fact the side on mooring wasn't that good either as he wasn't sure of the controls.

 

I guess if you take the option away, you remove the problem?

 

In fact it was one of their boats that had some serious roof damage from getting a bridge height wrong.

 

Maybe they need to spend some more time doing the boat hand-overs to reduce risk.

 

It may be swim platforms don't lend themselves to hire boats given the thumping I have seen a lot of hire boats getting stern mooring, it would probably snap the swim platform. I think most private owners would be more careful as would most of the hirers on this site because they care and have a lot more boating experience.

 

As I said remove the option, you avoid the problem.

 

I think we will continue to disagree on the benefits (or not), but each to their own.

[JennyMorgan]

Quite an unlucky chap then Peter,

 

.....being the only one you know about, with so many stern platforms around.

Apparently the corner caught under the jetty's whale as the tide rose. 

[Guest]

.....Hence my comment that some boats with platforms do not "lend themselves" to the Broads in general.....

 

I would agree with that more qualified assertion Wussername, (my underline).

 

Some "Platforms" are indeed a somewhat precarious extension, and do not lend themselves to many stern mooring situations.

 

I think perhaps we are discussing this at cross purposes, and maybe our personal concept of a "swim platform" is different, since the term is such an all embracing one.

 

I've made up a collage of the widely differing types to hopefully clarify my humble opinion.  In this image, the top row are essentially bolted on, so are indeed more susceptible to being caught under or over key headings with hollow voids underneath.

 

I'm talking about the bottom row however, integral to the hull design, much safer to use, and less susceptible to damage.

 

If Peter's acquaintance caught the "corner" under a jetty, then it seems more likely to be something from the top row.

 

I reiterate my point, stern "platforms" were primarily designed to aid stern-to mooring at quayheaded marinas, and the term "swim platform" is more of a misnomer.

[JennyMorgan]

I don't remember the make of the boat that was damaged but I do remember that I admired it and was told that it was an American import, not a Bayliner. To be honest I would say the platform was not unlike the Haines one in Strow's collage, not one of the screw on type shown in the first three examples. We must remember that most Marinas worth the name have finger jetties that allow a boat owner to moor up without the risk of the platform catching on a quay heading. A door in a conventional transom seems to me to be the best compromise.

[Guest]

Well I guess each person will have their own opinion of how likely an integrated  stern platform is going to actually be a problem Peter.

 

Their almost universal incorporation in modern boat designs would seem to indicate that most people appreciate their  advantages over the shortcomings you percieve.

 

(It's a bit of a relief really, I was getting a bit worried about how often I'd started to agree with you).

[Wussername]

I do not dispute for a minute Baitrunner of your experience of a hirerer who had cause to be aggrieved at the standard of the trial run that he had received. However, in my experience this is an exception to the rule. In fact the boat yard which I mentioned gives a most excellent trial run.

I would also go as far to say that this is true for the majority of boat yards on the Broads. Far removed from that which was experienced several years ago.

Going back to the platform issue, there are designs of boat which leave much to be desired, as indeed applies to platforms.

But as you quite rightly say we all have different views, whatever "floats your boat" is your choice. "Your boat" being the important, operative words.

Old Wussername.

PS I hope that you have made provision for a stout grab handle on your platform. Some of those Yare fish are big old beggers

[Timbo]

Having retrieved the lad through the transom doors the other year after he fell off the boat whilst we were under way, leaving Ranworth & just about to join the main river, and as we already have them...I'm all for them!

 

After dealing with the lad...delivering the verbal 'thick ear' I got to pondering means of retrieving Uncle Albert should he ever fall in. Turning onto the main river I was confronted by a hire craft with a bloke & a woman walking either side of the deck to the bow. No life jackets, no hands on grab rails, both waving their arms frantically for balance and both of them staggeringly over weight. My recently chastised and now avid life jacket wearing crew member voiced my thoughts asking 'how would you retrieve them back onto the boat should they fall?'.

 

Just like Uncle Albert, I would tow them to the nearest boatyard with a crane or at least a slipway.

 

I came across this on twitter a few minutes ago...any fans of the' tweed' life jacket? Apparently this company www.seasafe.co.uk/ can make jackets from material you provide.

[Baitrunner]

I have an extremely large grab rail fitted as standard.

You could tow a supertanker with it!