Life jackets

[Guest]

I think you can buy the straps separate at many chandlers.....

 

Yes £3.60 at Norfolk Marine or slightly more from mail order suppliers:

 

http://www.norfolkmarine.co.uk/shop-online/crotch-strap-lifejackets-p-21642.html

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=lifejacket+crotch+strap&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=cr&ei=IrevVLrWI8eqUdmKhJAH#q=lifejacket+crotch+strap&tbm=shop

 

(safe enough to Google it as long as you add the word "lifejacket" )

[SueH]

Having followed this thread from the beginning I took a look at my LJ which does not have the 'strap'.  We had a rummage in the workshop, found an old bag 'handle'.  A few pop rivets from HIC and job done.  Something I had never thought about, especially as my LJ is quite a loose fit despite tightening as much as possible.

 

Thanks for the advice and pointing me in the right direction.

 

SueH

[Happy]

  At the start of last season I purchased two new life jackets to replace our old ones.  I must admit, at the time, I felt quite proud of myself.  That was however until we attended the Autumn Forum meet at The Waveney River Centre.  In attendance were the RNLI lifeboat crew and one of the things they were doing were checking members life jackets. Rather tongue in cheek I presented our two new jackets, the conversation went something like this-"Yes, very nice, well made and good condition. However, they are manual (pull cord) inflation and don't have a crutch strap, I advise replacing them asap"! I did feel a bit of a plonker!  I have today ordered two new 190N's from the website mentioned by the original poster.  Thanks for the information, very welcome as usual.  Regards Alan     

[JennyMorgan]

Alan, for Broads use there is a lot to be said for manual inflation, namely that you only inflate it if you need it, my choice. Different at sea when you fall in and the bank is several miles away.

[Happy]

JennyMorgan.  I take your point but thats OK if you are able to inflate the thing!  Not so if you've had a knock on the head or similar.  I'll trust what the RNLI said I think! Regards Alan

[JawsOrca]

With all respect but you can drown in a bowl of water. As I'm sure you know people have drowned in the broads, The broads have some strong currents, if you fall in around these strong currents you are in as much trouble as you are if you fall in at sea, plus you are likely to fall in on a rainy day when everything's slippery and you have a nice thick winters jacket on so therefore you will want as much help as you can get!

 

I like to treat the broads with the same amount of respect as I would sailing at sea. I think (no harm intended) but the majority of us holidaying on the broads our minds are elsewhere, therefore we aren't thinking about failing in and we probably aren't strong swimmers. Thus should we be investing in lifejackets I think it's wise to go full hog with it. Needless to say that these are pointless in owning if no one wears them, which I admit, I rarely do on the broads although I had a strict policy at sea that all crew wore the jacket whilst the boat was in motion, something which we probably do want to repeat certainly if it's raining or anywhere near breydon.

 

I was interested regard points made on buoyancy aids, I thinking of getting a couple for the nice sunny day as this would be better like you say, although it's going to ruin my tan lines lol

 

(just MHO of course )

[Guest]

Alan, for Broads use there is a lot to be said for manual inflation, namely that you only inflate it if you need it, my choice. Different at sea when you fall in and the bank is several miles away.

 

I'm getting worried about this......

 

I keep finding myself in agreement with Peter. 

 

Yes, the official party line is auto-inflate and many people feel fiercely defensive of that edict.

 

If you fell in unconscious with a manual pull cord model, you'd probably sink like a stone.....

 

However, I still prefer my manual model because like Peter, I prefer to decide when it should deploy, and also the mechanism is simpler and the only serviceable part is the gas cylinder which can be simply weighed, and lasts for many years, unlike the "invisible" decaying of the dissolving triggers that cost about 25% of the whole lifejacket to replace each service.

 

I should really fork out the extra cash for a true hydrostatic trigger auto model, because they inflate much quicker anyway, as revealed on several web pages, like this one:

http://www.boatingmag.com/gear/boatinglab-tests-auto-inflatable-pfds

[BroadScot]

I'm getting worried about this......

 

I keep finding myself in agreement with Peter. 

 

Yes, the official party line is auto-inflate and many people feel fiercely defensive of that edict.

 

If you fell in unconscious with a manual pull cord model, you'd probably sink like a stone.....

 

However, I still prefer my manual model because like Peter, I prefer to decide when it should deploy, and also the mechanism is simpler and the only serviceable part is the gas cylinder which can be simply weighed, and lasts for many years, unlike the "invisible" decaying of the dissolving triggers that cost about 25% of the whole lifejacket to replace each service.

 

I should really fork out the extra cash for a true hydrostatic trigger auto model, because they inflate much quicker anyway, as revealed on several web pages, like this one:

http://www.boatingmag.com/gear/boatinglab-tests-auto-inflatable-pfds

Strowy,

 

Try a chemist, they may have a cure for JM syndrome

 

 

Iain.

[Guest]

.......Needless to say that these are pointless in owning if no one wears them, which I admit, I rarely do on the broads although I had a strict policy at sea that all crew wore the jacket whilst the boat was in motion, something which we probably do want to repeat certainly if it's raining or anywhere near breydon......

 

 

I used to be guilty of that too Alan, but I'm pleased to say now that my Wife's nagging has now born fruit, and my LJ is hanging just inside the cabin door, and is put on whenever I go out on deck or work on the boat from the quay heading.

 

Even tinkering about on the boat, on it's nice safe home mooring, miles inland from the Sea, so many people have drowned from slipping in unnoticed when no-one else was about.

 

Plenty of even highly experienced boating people have died that way on the Broads.

 

(Remember the tragic loss of Graham Cook, young, fit, and must have hopped on and off thousands of boats each year, being the Potter bridge pilot.)

[JennyMorgan]

JennyMorgan.  I take your point but thats OK if you are able to inflate the thing!  Not so if you've had a knock on the head or similar.  I'll trust what the RNLI said I think! Regards Alan

Alan, you must do what you feel is right and proper for you.

In defence of my advice and opinion I will point out that the RNLI, for whom I have a huge regard, is a 'sea' orientated institution.

[JennyMorgan]

I used to be guilty of that too Alan, but I'm pleased to say now that my Wife's nagging has now born fruit, and my LJ is hanging just inside the cabin door, and is put on whenever I go out on deck or work on the boat from the quay heading.

 

Even tinkering about on the boat, on it's nice safe home mooring, miles inland from the Sea, so many people have drowned from slipping in unnoticed when no-one else was about.

 

Plenty of even highly experienced boating people have died that way on the Broads.

 

(Remember the tragic loss of Graham Cook, young, fit, and must have hopped on and off thousands of boats each year, being the Potter bridge pilot.)

My wife nags me too! Not only that but I am nowhere near as agile as I was.

Not only Graham Cook but also Alec Hampton, famous for Hampton Boats.

[Polly]

Webbing is a better option than cord MM not as sharp! This thread reminds me that I was plotting to make a set of crotch straps for our L Js this winter.

[C.Ricko]

How often do you fall in Strow to have to make the call wether to deploy or not? 

 

Back in the days when I did trial runs I would advise about the lifejackets only sometimes to be met with the answer

'It's ok we are all good swimmers' 

I would always give  a harsh direct reply that its really hard to swim when you are knocked unconscious on the way in..

 

Apart from that I was quite friendly on the trial runs ...

 

these days we have auto inflates same as most yards although i do know 1 or 2 have the manual version. 

 

I think we had about 50 which were let off this year, some which got caught on door handles etc and went off, some through messing about (kids or drunk people!) and about 5 on people who fell in 3 of which felt sure they would have perished if they had not had them on. 

 

a few accidental inflations is a small price to pay and we are glad we put the investment in made the change, yes there is an ongoing servicing cost too but people just won't wear the old ones.

[MauriceMynah]

Just on the crotch strap point again, I find myself wondering along these lines...

 

If an auto LJ does NOT have such a strap, is it a case of...

 

A. It will ride up,

B. It will probably ride up 

C. It is a 50/50 chance that it will ride up

D. It probably will not ride up

E. It is very unlikely to ride up

 

Before any form of risk assessment can be done, this rather important point needs to be known. However, I then wonder if the answer is either A or B, are the LJs "fit for purpose"? and if not, how come they are still marketed.

[Guest]

How often do you fall in Strow to have to make the call wether to deploy or not?

 

I can't deny that you have me there Clive.

 

You're quite right about needing to be concious, but it's all a question of overall risk factor.

 

The maximum risk is no lifejacket at all,

 

and Minimum risk is auto-inflator with crotch strap, and always worn afloat.

 

In between those two extremes, we each find a workable medium that we can reliably stick to.

 

I wonder how many hirers fit the crotch strap to your new supplied auto-inflators ? (do you supply them ?)

[JennyMorgan]

Clive, you are wholly right in the context of inexperienced hirers but I have a good friend who was involved with a fatality when an auto-inflated lifejacket prevented a casualty from being retrieved from under a capsized sailing boat. The MCA report picked up on a number of factors regarding the capsize but the fact was that in this one instance the auto-inflation was a negative factor. Thankfully we are all still able to decide for ourselves.

[C.Ricko]

I had the jackets made with the crotch strap sewn onto the webbing so that it could not be lost..

 

We can only do our best to ensure the safety of the hirers, it is not law to wear them so it is entirely 

the individuals call..

 

I know someone who had to remove their life jacket to escape  a capsized boat so there are all sorts of eventualities and you can't possibly cover them all..

[MauriceMynah]

I remember when it was made compulsory for people travelling in the front of a car to wear seat belts. The number of stories I heard along the lines of...,

"I knew a bloke who had an accident, and if he'd been wearing a seat belt he'd have been killed."

We used to hear them all the time!

 

Well I'm in absolutely no doubt that if Broadsman is capsized in Salhouse broad by a fast swimming duck, and the occupants all drown because their LJs fired automatically, Clive will be the first to hold his hands up and admit his error, meanwhile I am still rather interested in whether the LJ I bought is good enough to save me or do I absolutely need a crotch strap!

[BroadScot]

MM,

 

As you are moored I believe not that far from Stalham why not seek out if the gentleman is available, Mr Clive, and get him, or one of his staff to check your LJ out. Just a thought.

 

Iain.

[Guest]

I had the jackets made with the crotch strap sewn onto the webbing so that it could not be lost........

 

I was impressed with your previous idea of having your auto lifejackets made with a specially commissioned transparent panel so that their vital parts could be easily inspected between hires.

 

Sewing the crotch strap in as well is another excellent forethought.

 

You have indeed done everything possible to give hirers the best possible equipment in that respect.

 

It's a shame that the retail market still doesn't offer the same loophole proof option to private buyers. (as far as I know).

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

I fairly recently bought 4 self inflating life jackets, and none of them had the crotch straps. 

 

I think it will be pretty simple to buy some webbing strap and snap buckles to make some crotch straps, and with a sister in-law with a talent for sowing, i`m going to visit our local fabric shop.

[Matt]

meanwhile I am still rather interested in whether the LJ I bought is good enough to save me or do I absolutely need a crotch strap![

All of the tragic incidents that have occurred are all investigated and the reports published. Have you ever seen a report where the deceased was wearing a life jacket, with or without a crutch strap?

I have had a quick (and it was quick) google search and I am yet to find such a report.

[JennyMorgan]

http://www.rya.org.uk/newsevents/enewsletters/Sportsboatsandribs/june2009/Pages/whenshouldiwearalifejacket.aspx

 

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/ais1.pdf

[C.Ricko]

the jacket with the window was not my idea but it is new to the market since the development of the new firing mech, Crotch straps are optional extras which are removable, it you don't do them up then they get in the way and would be removed I guess if I had not had them sewn on, it is something they had not done before though and it took a few attempts to explain why it need to be so!

[Polly]

Yes. Webbing and buckles readily available on the Internet, just check what the webbing is made of, like ropes you can get degradation with some fibres. Given how cheap they are at the chandlery, the only reason I am making is because I have stuff on hand to do the job.