Life jackets

[LadyPatricia]

Evening guys n gals

We are looking at getting life jackets as the one's that 'came with the boat' when we bought it are the big orange bulky things. Not great when trying to pass along the narrow free boards (I think thats what they are called) down the side of our Norman.

We've found these on the web, any advice as to wether these are good or bad?

http://www.crew-safe.co.uk/acatalog/Parmaris-Life-Jacket-Raider.html#aRaider_20Life_20Jacket_2e

Hope the link works

Steve

[JawsOrca]

Looks good Steve, These are pointless without the crutch strap though (these do come included which is good) and make sure you wear it.. Also go for automatic as the last thing you will be thinking is pulling the cord. Not a bad price either,

[ranworthbreeze]

Hi Steve,

 

I suggest that you go for the 190 rather than the 150 but that is my personal choice.

I agree with Alan to go for the automatic option.

 

Regards

Alan

[Matt]

But are crutch straps really necessary on the broads?

I reckon if ours had crutch straps we would be less inclined to wear them.

[Matt]

We do have crutch straps on the kiddies ones though!

[LondonRascal]

I think it is important to see what happens when a life jacket inflates - here is a clip showing a Manuel and automatic, note no crotch strap and I also see the jacket does not 'ride up' as many say they can without such strap.

 

Mine has no strap and neither do (to my knowledge) any of the automatic jackets given to hire boat hirers.

http://youtu.be/UlbNeKBoQYA?t=1m2s

[Guest]

I agree strongly with the comment made by Jawsorca about always using the crutch strap.

 

Other than if wearing a skirt, there's no inconvenience at all. (or a kilt !)

 

It doesn't have to be too tight, and it enables the waistband to be a little looser, which does make a big difference to comfort, especially in warmer weather.

 

The difference in support when you go in is considerable, as I found when I tested mine when the cylinder was due for renewal.

 

(Sorry about the girly photo, but it was the only one I could find showing how they ride up above your head, greatly reducing how much they lift your mouth any eyes above the water surface.)

[JawsOrca]

Interesting stuff. I'm no expert apart from being told on my rya dayskipper course that these types of jacket should have crutch straps to stop them rising up, maybe it depends how tight fitting they are or maybe if worn with waterproofs makes it ride up more?!.  My jacket does have a strap and I do feel safer wearing for some reason

 

(Don't forget to service these frequently too, on that course they asked us to bring in and inspect them, scarcely even new ones where out of date and the co2 bottles have the habit of undoing themselves so before you use them make sure the co2 bottle is screwed tight and check annually that it's in date).

[LadyPatricia]

Thanks for all the replies and thoughts. That pic Strowy has attached does show graphically how a crutch strap is required IMO

looks like we will go for the automatic ones as well

Steve

[JennyMorgan]

I have never used an auto lifejacket in anger but I reckon the lady in Strowager's shot would have been best advised to have tightened her straps before jumping in. I note that when I have been on Broads Authority launches, and supplied with one of theirs, that it has not had a crotch strap. When I have gone through Mutford Lock I noted that the staff wore their jackets but did not use the crotch straps. When I commented on that I was told that after a few hours they became very uncomfortable.

[Timbo]

Crotch straps are essential I would say from experience of fishing Uncle Albert out over the years. Please note the old boy has had a habit of falling into whatever water is handy ever since he left the navy. The older/heavier he got the more anchor points are required to fish him out and to keep him buoyant.

 

I have to admit that on my life jacket I don't fasten the crotch strap in position, but after seeing the pollava my daughter created trying to haul herself out of the water the other year I do insist that all crew fasten theirs and will be doing so myself in future.

 

We bought a matching set of life jackets for all crew including the dogs. With the dogs jackets came additional d-links and Karabina with tether straps. Returning to the boat from a trip to Lathems I spotted my daughter had used the extras straps and links to tether Uncle Albert inside the cockpit
'What's occurring?' I asked.

"I needed the loo & I didn't want him wandering off!" the reply.

Top marks for initiative that girl!

[Guest]

It's unfortunate that many people feel that the crotch strap is not essential.

 

Maybe they're embarrassed by them, or maybe they feel less "professional". 

 

The dark blue self-inflating lifejackets are so much more appealing than the original hire boat "Mr Blobby" orange monstrosities, so maybe people feel less need to wear them correctly with the untidy or "inconvenient"crotch strap.

 

I've now found a much better demonstration of the difference in support without them.

 

It's a youtube video sanctioned by the RYA, RNLI, and MCA, so its provenance is unquestionable.

 

If anyone watches this, they surely will see the folly of not using the crotch strap.

 

Ok, it's aimed mostly at offshore boating, hence the spray hood etc., but the principle of the crotch strap stopping any riding up is exactly the same for calm inland waterways. Without it, the whole thing rides up, and you sink down lower in the water.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNfXMLG5pI4

[JennyMorgan]

Many sailing and kayak/canoeing types have reverted to the closed cell foam type lifejackets. One reason being that there will be occasions when the wearer is dunked but does not need the lifejacket to inflate, I think that there is some wisdom in that. Personally I have and use both types, that is if I choose to wear one.

[JennyMorgan]

Thank you, Strowager, convincing stuff. However the video does highlight a problem that I had overlooked, that of not being able to swim on one's front, perhaps making it harder to swim ashore or back to one's boat. The video is absolutely bang on for sea use, totally convincing, but for inland waters perhaps a buoyancy aid, such as worn by dinghy sailors and kayakers, has a lot to recommend them. This has to be down to experience and personal choice.

[Guest]

Peter has raised another important point there, the choice of buoyancy aid or lifejacket.

 

When people see them hanging up in the Chandlers it's easy to get confused with the wide choice.

 

It's quite important to select the right type for the type of use intended.

 

Lifejackets are intended to keep you afloat and alive even if unconscious, so they provide maximum buoyancy, and force you onto your back. They are perhaps the best choice when cruising on the Broads in craft larger than dinghies or canoes, and when there is minimal chance of capsizing etc..

 

Buoyancy Aids or Personal Flotation Devices (PFDs) are design to support conscious people who need greater freedom of movement, eg sailing dinghy crew or kayakers.  They are nearly always capable of self-rescue, so a fully inflated  lifejacket actually becomes a hindrance, forcing them onto their back, and making re-entry to the canoe or dinghy much more difficult. They can even be quite dangerous in enclosed kayaks, since they have been known to trap the wearer in an inverted position.

 

Like Peter has said, I use both types, and keep several aboard for guest use.

 

I must admit, the closed cell foam buoyancy aids give me more confidence, because nothing can go wrong with them, the buoyancy is already locked in, and doesn't rely on a cartridge and firing mechanism working at the crucial moment !

 

edit - that took me so long to type in that Peter has already said much of the same thing !

 

Here's my favourite PFD for canoeing and inland sailing, slightly bulkier than a self inflating collar, but 70 newtons of bombproof buoyancy, with no annual servicing......

[MauriceMynah]

I have an LJ without a crotch strap (self inflating) and I have an idea. I shall obtain a nylon cord with a loop at each end. one loop will have the LJ's belt attached, the other will cats paw through my trouser belt. How does that sound?

[Guest]

Coincidentally, crutch straps are far less critical with PFDs than Lifejackets, because there's an equal amount of buoyancy support behind your back, as well as in front of you, unlike self inflating lifejackets, where it is mostly in front with some behind your head, but none behind your back.......

[JennyMorgan]

Nice one, Strow. In your posting No 15 you highlighted, in a couple of words, a very relevant point, self rescue. If my wife and I were out sailing and I fell in then I would need to be able to help myself. Lyn, my wife, has had major back surgery and would be unable to offer me much help. A very important consideration and begs the question of how any casualty would or could reboard their boat. Maybe bathing platforms have their uses!

[Guest]

I have an LJ without a crotch strap (self inflating) and I have an idea. I shall obtain a nylon cord with a loop at each end. one loop will have the LJ's belt attached, the other will cats paw through my trouser belt. How does that sound?

 

Cats Paw ?

 

I made my own crutch straps for a couple of my self inflators.

 

Very simple as you suggest, you just need to loop something, ideally the same sort of nylon strap round the LJ's belt at the back, and the LJ's belt at the front, with some sort of adjustment.

 

I used a couple of the  multitude of sports bag straps that you seem to collect over the years.

[Guest]

...... and begs the question of how any casualty would or could reboard their boat. Maybe bathing platforms have their uses!

 

Now you're talking Peter, a very useful facility on any boat any where, not just for Gin Palaces ! 

[JennyMorgan]

I wonder if hinged transoms might be an answer. Bathing platforms do have their limitations on the Broads, not least stern-on moorings. However if a boat had what is effectively a double transom, one that is hinged and capable of being lowered when needed, then, although probably expensive to install, could be an ideal compromise. Probably quite easy to retro fit too.

[Gracie]

Thank you Strowager for the links, very informative, the amount of times my boys have put their life jackets on with the crutch straps not fastened, I shall make sure they are in the future. The girly picture (as you put it) demonstrates the very reason they should be fastened in the correct way

 

Another fine example of a thread and topic where the information is invaluable from some very knowledgeable members, thank you again

 

Grace

[MauriceMynah]

Without wishing to labour a point, my idea was twofold, one, it modifies a non crotchstrap LJ to one with, and it also enables the LJ to be worn without a crotch strap per say, but with ones trousers doing that task. A third advantage also occurs to me, such a device would also hold ones trousers up. Never a bad thing!

[Guest]

Without wishing to labour a point, my idea was twofold, one, it modifies a non crotchstrap LJ to one with, and it also enables the LJ to be worn without a crotch strap per say, but with ones trousers doing that task. A third advantage also occurs to me, such a device would also hold ones trousers up. Never a bad thing!

 

Ah..  I see your plan now MM.

 

Yes, anchoring the lifejacket belt (fore and aft) to a firmly attached trouser belt would serve as a similar makeshift function to a crotch strap.

 

The trouser gusset might have more of a "wedgie" effect than an external crotch strap though....

 

Much better than none at all though.....

[JawsOrca]

I think you can buy the straps separate at many chandlers. I would google and provide a link although I'm in work and don't fancy my luck with the other sites that may be returned with such search...  . With regards to the third benefit I think drinking more would probably help...