Herbert Woods Have Announced They Are Fitting Smoke And Co Alarms To Their Fleet.

[MauriceMynah]

I know that someone (on here I think) has the sign-off "Artificial intelligence is no match against natural stupidity"

So, Granny is shivering in the corner and various devices are used to warm her up. Vents are blocked up and the alarm is disabled. Granny snuffs it!. Customer has several options one of which is to admit to being an idiot and accepting responsibility. Or he can take away the draft excluders and say the alarm was defective. I wonder which he'll do.

[ScrumpyCheddar]

I think it's great news.... all yards should...if they haven't already installed them already....

[Viking23]

Safety equipment, we hope we don't need it.

We are told to wear life jackets when appropriate, you still hear of the odd drowning some are as a result of a medical complication, and the person banks his head and falls into the river, but many times lives have been saved. Most holiday makers don't think that being on a boat they are going to reenact "Titanic" every time. Mind you there has been quite a lot of ice around this week.

Life belts or life buoys, you are more likely to knock your victim unconcious  without training, but they are fitted to all hire craft.

Fire extinguishers, customers are shown where they are, but are rarely trained in their use, very rare for a fire extinguisher to be deployed, customers don't cruise thinking that at anytime the boat is going to burst into flames.

Fire blankets, when used properly can easily put out chip pan fires, or similar. Again no one is trained in their use.

So the addition of smoke alarms and CO alarms are fitted as a just in case item, but as already mentioned, the hand over check list will demonstrate to the hirer that they work, why they are there and they always mention fixed ventilation and never block it, they've been doing that for decades. The hirer will also be directed to the skipper's handbook, of what to do if an alarm goes off.

To be fair, when new hirers come on board, they are probably more interested to know where to charge their phone or tablet, how to work the dvd player, and where is the corkscrew and bottle opener.

I just wonder, when Robin had the smoke coming through the floor on one of his hire craft, would a smoke alarm have registered a fault earlier?

Head to the nearest bank, do not pass go, do not collect personal possessions, (as if !! ) etc

It was mentioned on that particular posting, that it may not be a good idea to lift floor covers where a fire may be suspected, backdraft and all that, a sudden increase in oxygen to potentially fuel the flames. A point that I might not have considered at a time of stress.  Ohhhh smoke... what's going on under here then? ...

What would have happened if it took place after retiring. Not all people would have acted in the same way as Robin, I still believe that he may have prevented a total loss, and saved all on board. 

However, there are many others that would do something totally different,  a fireman for example, might just head to shore evacuate, ring emergency services and watch as things develop. 

A young stag group, might ignore it and carry on, opening the window more to let the smoke out, or raced as if in a competion to lift all the floor panels... I just hope that one was quick enough to grab a fire extinguisher.  

Heading to shore, getting all crew off the boat must be first priority, if and only if, a person feels confident to investigate the cause ... well thinking about it, not really good advice this... I'm with the fireman lol.

It's not your boat, it's insured, why put your life or family at risk. If it was my boat... yeah things would be different, many owners would probably try to do something... goes against common sense but ...

Maybe time to get out your chestnuts and start roasting them lol.

 

 

[ChrisB]

Early detection and prevention has always been preferable to reactive activity.

Extinguishing by the untrained really worries me. What percentage of the general public given the five most common extinguishers would know what to use on which fire? Use the wrong one and you could make matters a whole lot worse and put youself in more danger.

[Vaughan]

Interesting discussion.

I would suggest that fire and CO poisoning are two different subjects which need different approaches to safety.

I take the point about use of the fire blanket but does anyone really do deep-fat frying anymore? If the fire doesn't get you, your bad diet will!

With fire, I subscribe to the "get off it and let the bugger burn" school of thought, for both private and hire. Your boat is insured and can be replaced, but your life cannot.

In my experience, fires on hire boats are very rare and over the last 20 years they have been almost all electrical, caused by the complicated circuits needed for all the new electronic gadgets. The last hire boat fire on the Canal du Midi, a couple of years ago, was when a brand new, state-of-the-art 8 berth boat was burned down to the waterline by a fire in the wiring to an electric barbecue installed on the upper deck.

With CO (and CO2) this is more complex, as the alarm is only ever going to tell you there is a problem - it is not going to prevent it, or cure it.

I imagine HW must have thought a lot before taking this decision as it could be anti-marketing. Some might think "If they have to have alarms, it must be dangerous on boats". I remember this happening with gas detectors in the 70s, when hirers at once became afraid of gas leaks, and the alarms kept going off for strange reasons, especially when someone used hair spray or deodorant. (This was because the propellant in an aerosol can is LPG Butane, so in fact they were doing their job properly). In the end, the hire boat industry decided we were better off without them.

If you feel comfortable with an alarm on board then, by all means, but please don't forget that you must still ensure that your gas installations are safely fitted and operated, and that you have adequate fixed ventilation.

[ZimbiIV]

As a trained fire officer at work (not a fireman) the first bit of the week long course was, a fire extinguisher is not to fight fire but to help you get the hell out of there safely!

paul

[grendel]

did you do the bit where you lead everyone out of your building blindfolded to simulate smoke, this was  always great fun when you werent on the course

[ChrisB]

5 hours ago, ZimbiIV said:

As a trained fire officer at work (not a fireman) the first bit of the week long course was, a fire extinguisher is not to fight fire but to help you get the hell out of there safely!

paul

But should your safe deep fat fryer go up, and they do, and you blast it with CO2? You most likely will never get out.

[ZimbiIV]

No, we had to undergo a full scale simulation, smoke, noise and shouting, It's everybody screaming that's dis-orienting.

paul

[ZimbiIV]

 ChrisB, if you do manage to smother a deep fat fryer fire, remember not to uncover it until the pan is cold enough to touch otherwise it may re-ignite.

The correct way to escape a fire using an extinguisher is to direct it at the base of the fire while going to the nearest exit, which you should always look for when entering a building.

Ikea always gives me the hebe gebes how they get away with their layouts I don't know.

paul

Edited January 28, 2017 by ZimbiIV
insert Fire

[tjg1677]

I often do instruction on how to use fire extinguishers etc.  You will be astounded how many people :

a. dont know where the fire extinguishers are

b. dont know how to use them

c. use fire extinguishers to prop fire doors open

d. ignore appliances that are obviously defective, i.e hose split ( this happens because those that use them as door stops always seem to carry them by the hose !!! ), pressure gauge in the red, safety pin missing.

All quite worrying stuff if you dwell on it. As Paul says, never uncover an extinguished chip pan / fryer until it is cold. Also in my experience the best thing to extinguish such a fire is a wet towel, some fire blankets as deployed are quite ineffecient as they dont seal properly due to the stiff nature of the material they are made from, let a lot of air back in and dont always smother the flames straight away, whereas a thick wet towel will do it instantly.   Another thing when using an extinguisher is to remember to aim the discharge at the base of the flames ( again as Paul rightly points out ) but remember to sweep it from side to side for maximum effect.

Hope some of this was useful info.

stay safe out there

Trev.