Mudweight Anywhere ?

[Vaughan]

Just now, marshman said:

I am not going into this too deep Vaughan, but it would require someone with very deep pockets to argue these finer points in a court of law!!

I quite agree and this is what I mentioned earlier, about Gt Hoveton. There may now be a good legal argument for access, but who is going to pursue it in court?

I think what we are really talking about here is the natural anxiety felt by the TheQ, who speaks as a member of Horning Sailing Club, to try and ensure their future access to Black Horse Broad as it is a great asset for their sporting (and non polluting!) activity.

In my view, I am sure that the "tidal" argument would still be the deciding factor, but if they can prove the old existence of a staithe, then even better.

By the way, could someone please try and persuade the forum computer to recognise the word "staithe"?

[marshman]

What on earth does it think you are trying to say? Thats got my mind going off on a tangent!!

[ChrisB]

In our 2006 search for somewhere to live in Norfolk we viewed a house that overlooked Blackhorse Broad. The house then was smaller  as it has since been extended, I think, but although it has access down to the water the house only owned about halfway down, in fact it came to light because I passed comment on a hedge half way down the garden. It was a Friday evening viewing and the Motor Bikes on that Hoveton/Horning/Ludham road made my wife and I say to each other once back in the car " How much ? And some strange boundary " not for us.

[Timbo]

23 hours ago, Vaughan said:

Sorry, but I hoped I had explained that above.

In the old days, the wherries could sail from Daisy Broad in Hoveton, across Hudsons Bay and Hoveton Great Broad, cross the river at the downstream entrance and then sail across what are now marshes until they came out again just south of Horning Ferry, opposite what used to be Wilds boatyard dyke. They did this because they had better sailing in open water. I am sure this old navigation must still be visible in satellite photos.

TIMBO? Where are you when we need you? Put down whatever you are doing in your "Tardis" and come and join us!

 

Sorry I'm late. Doug get's antsyif I don't do my homework!

So here are the LIDAR results you asked for Vaughan. The first one is an overview of the area. Now don't get all excited about inland seas and rubbish like that. You are looking at marshland, with quite a bit of open water I must say. At point 'A' I've marked known archaeology. This is Bronze Age ditch. B and C...I'd look for your staithe, particularly at point C in Hudson's bay.

 

You will be able to pick up from the LIDAR information that Black Horse, Hoveton Grt Broad....basically all of the bits of water are all part of the same water system. Not necessarily peat diggings. As Vaughan knows and if you look at the geological features you will notice that sand and gravel extraction has occurred in this region for thousands of years. There are also a couple of Bronze Age Ring Ditches and Barrow on the LIDAR.

[Timbo]

Here's the 1797 Faden Map

and here's a 1947 aerial photograph

[Vaughan]

That's great Tim, thank you. I was always told that the navigation across the marshes came out again opposite the Wilds boatyard dyke but logically, it would have come out before the road to the ferry.

I have noticed that on the Lidar there is something sticking out into the Little Broad right in front of the site of the Black Horse pub. Could that have been a staithe?

I also notice how deep the dyke is, leading to the broad. That must have been done for large boat traffic, I would have thought?

[Timbo]

Where was the Black Horse Pub? Cue Joseph Locke impersonation, yes I have one, although I'm not as old as you lot you know! 

[NorfolkNog]

Black Horse pub was technically Hoveton St John although it was just outside Horning on the main road. No trace of it now, it's housing. Nice little pub with a very decent drop of Adnams if memory serves. 

[NorfolkNog]

Here yer go 

[Timbo]

15 minutes ago, NorfolkNog said:

Black Horse pub was technically Hoveton St John although it was just outside Horning on the main road. No trace of it now, it's housing. Nice little pub with a very decent drop of Adnams if memory serves. 

Thanks, Mr Nog!

51 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

That's great Tim, thank you. I was always told that the navigation across the marshes came out again opposite the Wilds boatyard dyke but logically, it would have come out before the road to the ferry.

I have noticed that on the Lidar there is something sticking out into the Little Broad right in front of the site of the Black Horse pub. Could that have been a staithe?

I also notice how deep the dyke is, leading to the broad. That must have been done for large boat traffic, I would have thought?

Here you go Vaughan, from the first OS map of Norfolk surveyed between 1879 and 1886

The staithe is clearly visible and the road leading to and from although not named as a staithe.

[Timbo]

I think the Tithe Map of 1840 is the best illustration of navigation channels. There's a road that bisects any possible passage between Little Broad and Great Broad. However Hoveton Great Broad is clearly a regular passage for shipping, cutting the bend in the river via the Great broad and Hudson's Bay. Note the Gravel Dykes for loading boats with gravel extracted and transporting it.

[Vaughan]

12 minutes ago, Timbo said:

although not named as a staithe.

I think we can bet our boots it was, though. That road goes only a few yards from the pub. It would be well worth the sailing club looking into the history of this.

[Vaughan]

41 minutes ago, NorfolkNog said:

Nice little pub with a very decent drop of Adnams if memory serves. 

It was one of Perci Percival's favourite locals and Jack Bidewell, the river inspector, could be found in there most nights. They had a beautiful oil painting of a wherry on the wall, depicted in the still of the evening, with the smoke coming up from the cabin chimney. I wish I knew what happened to that!

[TheQ]

Nice picture  / maps Timbo...

 

It was one of my favourite locals, on the way back from RAF Neatishead to RAF Coltishall where our Accomodation was... Then they banned us from wearing Uniform in pubs...