Relative Emergancy, Advice Needed!

[Vaughan]

I assumed this must be an early ply boat.

However if it is GRP then the problem must just be a matter of "plumbing".  Skin fittings, sink outlets and such.  I also assume it is fitted for an outboard engine?

Much easier to find and sort out in that case.

So is it ply, or GRP?

[Satchmo]

47 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

So is it ply, or GRP?

It is GRP, although it has an inboard (Yanmar 8hp, very old). It does seem to be the working theory that the problem has something to do with hull fittings and as I will be moving back on board I will be in a position to moniter any changes, of course as I have plugged up all the hull fittings I can find the problem should (please, please, please) be fixed and I shouldn't take on any more water but time will tell.

2 hours ago, w-album said:

Are you on shore power or generator?

Just make sure there is nothing that will prevent the bilge pump from working - that is lack of power!

Solar, but I have 2 180ah batteries so I should be ok. I'm also concious of the possibility of the pump getting clogged etc but I'll be keeping a close eye on it, I don't fancy another night of bailing water by hand

1 hour ago, vanessan said:

I know exactly where you are moored Satchmo and I think your boat will be subject to a lot of wash from passing boats.

It's as you say, it has concerned me before and I will now be keeping a closer eye on how it effects the boat and whether it lets any water in but without a motor it's not a simple task to move anywhere and even then I wouldn't know where to move to.

Thankyou all again, I will probably do another update in a few days time by which point I imagine the situation will either be much better or much worse!

[annv]

Hi Satchmo i suggest it my be a perished hose in a hull fitting,  best practice with hoses on hull fitting is two jubilee clips and guyed the hose up above the fitting as high as practicable this will stop water flowing in should the hull  dip level with the fitting and allow the water to come in,  it will have to go as high as the top of the hose this only applies to low down fittings ones well above the water don't need it bearing in mind the boat can lean over and submerge the hole so higher the better, this could be your problem rather than the hull to fitting leaking.I do hope you have factored in that boats don't in general have inserlation and suffer from bad condensation and heat lose that's why many liver boards have fossil fueled  stoves, gives dry heat. John

[Smoggy]

Run a line of chalk around any fittings and any leaks will be obvious even after the event.

[MauriceMynah]

Ok, I have a few more questions/suggestions for you Satchmo, The Dawncraft was originally designed to have an outboard engine and a Portapotti style toilet. You say it now has a diesel engine. This will have skin fittings below the waterline for cooling water.

If it has been converted to a pump-out style toilet that too may well have skin fittings below the waterline for flushing water.

It is possible that these skin fittings may be metal and if so they might be deteriorating. You will need to check if the boat has sacrificial anodes, and that they are still there. 

If you find there are leaks round these fittings proceed with great caution, you wouldn't want them breaking up in your hand eh!

Another place to look at are the low level rubbing strakes. If one of those was near (just above) the waterline before you loaded up the boat but now laden the strake is on or just below said waterline, you might well investigate the fixings for it.

Sorry to sound so full of doom and gloom but I think it best to give you the nod.

[BrundallNavy]

I don’t know if anyone noticed but it did rain a tad hard last weekend, it’s probably just rain water that got in which is why it’s dry now. Maybe check the windows and deck fittings. Get someone to throw a bucket of water over it while you are inside looking for leaks.

[grendel]

doug, it doesnt rain so hard you get feet of water onboard, or it could just be manxman syndrome. ie the timbers had dried out from sitting so long

[BrundallNavy]

23 minutes ago, grendel said:

doug, it doesnt rain so hard you get feet of water onboard, or it could just be manxman syndrome. ie the timbers had dried out from sitting so long

You clearly weren’t in Norfolk last weekend 

[Oddfellow]

On 29/09/2020 at 15:08, Polly said:

Lifting a boat with a hiab sounds a bit worrying.

Why? Common practice. 

Some transport companies have low-lowers with powerful hiabs on. I saw an Broom 30 being lifted on one at Woods Dyke some years ago. Very slick. Further back in time, two turned up at the Pike & Eel in St Ives and picked up a 50ft narrowboat. 

I lift small boats with my telehandler. 

[Oddfellow]

On 29/09/2020 at 12:50, Satchmo said:

I am in trouble. A few weeks ago I moved onto a dilapidated 25ft Dawncraft near Norwich with the intention of slowly repairing and renovating it while using it as a base from which I could work in Norwich. My "fool-proof" plan had been progressing fairly well until last Friday when I started taking on water, I bailed through the night but had to abandon ship the next day. However it didn't sink and on Sunday I returned and with help bailed out the 3-4ft of water filling the boat. The plan was then to get it out of the water asap and take it from there but come Monday (nobody was about Sunday) it hadn't taken on any water and so I have finally been able to exhale and am now trying to figure out the most sensible and preferably economical course of action to take.
To pre-emptively answer some possible questions: I did not have a working bilge pump on board and I am well aware of how foolish this was, I went into this project overflowing with naive optimism and it has definitely come back to bite me. There is now one on board and I'm heading up today with a battery (didn't have one of those either) to get it hooked up. I don't think there's a crack or hole in the hull as the boat is now sitting high in the water and there's nothing visible and it hasn't been taking on any more water (of course I am in no way qualified to make that call) so I have plugged every hole and pipe connecting to the outside of the boat just in case.
The plan is still to get it out of the water asap and transport it to Diss where I can have it dry-docked on a driveway (over 10ft wide and 60-odd ft long so plenty of space) and do all the work that needs doing, the question I need help with is what is the fastest and cheapest way of doing this (I am not a cheapskate, I just don't have much money)?
I have been told there is a guy with a 4x4 and a trailer who could do it for £200ish not including lifting but the same person suggested that getting a HIAB to lift and take it might be a cheaper option, the issue with that being that unloading it from the lorry as it would have to come off sideways and therefore not where it would need to be. Can anyone suggest a way of moving it once it's off the lorry (outdoors on uneven ground) or offer any kind of advice about how to go about this, this is all very new to me and any suggestions would be appreciated.

A sorry tale. I am in Thorpe and have a telehandler that should be able to lift it out of the river so long as it's not full of water. If you need help, call Freedom Boats. I haven't got much time, but I will help you in an emergency. 

[JennyMorgan]

40 minutes ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

Why? Common practice. 

I have seen the damage done by HIABs to several boats that had been delivered to a Lowestoft boatyard. Okay when a boat is sound but in one instance a bulkhead had unwisely been removed and the boat was badly nipped on lifting with damage to gunwhales and cabin sides. On another the prop shaft was badly distorted.  That is just two instances! Granted that neither boat was sound, one had suffered open planning whilst the other had soft floors and the bottom edges of the bulkheads had lost their integrity due to constantly sitting in bilge water over many years, a problem in many early Caribbeans.  By the sound of it Satchmo's boat is not of recent build. Just preaching caution.

[JennyMorgan]

1 hour ago, grendel said:

doug, it doesnt rain so hard you get feet of water onboard,

Not directly but the inches of rain that we have had recently might be enough to submerge a skin fitting that is normally well above the waterline. We might not have had four feet but I had the best part of a foot of water in my rowing boat!

[JennyMorgan]

Satchmo. one thing that has not been mentioned is that of brass fastenings in old boats. Regretfully they can and do erode and waste away, especially if poorly earthed boats are moored nearby. I have a forty year old boat & I have had to replace all the brass fastenings in recent years. I was amazed at the state of some of them, frightening. Brass, water and poorly installed/earthed mains electricity don't make for a good mix. 

I think that your decision to abandon any thoughts of major restoration is sound, especially if things are tight. Some boats are well worth restoring, I'm not sure that a knackered old Dawncraft is one of them! My guess, for what it's worth, is that you need to have your boat slipped and all its through hull fastenings checked and probably replaced.