Is The BA Prepared?

[floydraser]

2 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

As regards late evening patrolling, why should that cost more? A simple case of later start and variable shifts.

Enhanced payment for working outside of 9-5 may be one reason. Late shifts should be covered by volunteers, and by that I mean paid or unpaid. I wouldn't want anyone with children to be put under pressure to work evenings on my behalf, for a leisure activity. 

But what about unpaid volunteers though? They didn't seem to be factored in to the meeting agenda (I only caught the tail end of the stream) and on the rangers page it just says that there are some. On the canal system there seem to be plenty and talking to them, they have a great time. 

[JennyMorgan]

5 minutes ago, floydraser said:

But what about unpaid volunteers though?

My understanding is that BA volunteer rangers have no powers other than being able to report, just as you and I can. There is also a concern as to whether a volunteer should do an otherwise paid job that would provide a living wage to someone.

[rightsaidfred]

7 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

My understanding is that BA volunteer rangers have no powers other than being able to report, just as you and I can. There is also a concern as to whether a volunteer should do an otherwise paid job that would provide a living wage to someone.

Yes they support the rangers they dont substitute for or replace them.

Fred

[floydraser]

20 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

My understanding is that BA volunteer rangers have no powers other than being able to report, just as you and I can. There is also a concern as to whether a volunteer should do an otherwise paid job that would provide a living wage to someone.

Do they need powers to add to the safety and provide a deterent to speeders? I've been "caught" by volunteer locals wielding a speed camera before. Not prosecuted but a constructively worded warning letter.

A living wage for anti-social hours is quite a lot. You are then back in the balance of toll charges vs what you ask for. 

[rightsaidfred]

15 minutes ago, floydraser said:

Do they need powers to add to the safety and provide a deterent to speeders? I've been "caught" by volunteer locals wielding a speed camera before. Not prosecuted but a constructively worded warning letter.

A living wage for anti-social hours is quite a lot. You are then back in the balance of toll charges vs what you ask for. 

Nothing comes for nothing you only get what you pay for in this life and sometimes not even that, the broads are no exception.

Fred

[JennyMorgan]

Regarding volunteers, some I have met have been excellent but then some of them were not. I've also met regular rangers who have been absolutely scathing in regard to the volunteer crew member that had been forced upon them. 

[marshman]

Like it or not, I think you will find the Rangers job, and volunteer Rangers have to deal with more confrontational issues than they ever did!

Nowadays that would put me off instantly I am afraid, especially when their role surrounds giving advice without any of the powers that attach to say, the police. My guess is they have little or no intervention powers which is why Broads Beat have to be called to assist in such matters.

[marshman]

Would you rather they did not chase untaxed craft? How long would it take for that message to circulate the rhond - within 3 years they would not need a tolls department and you could then shut the BA! Would seem to suit quite a few of you!!!

[floydraser]

So you get what you pay for, and the ranger's job sounds like a load of hassle with all that confrontation. So what kind of person would want that job and how much would you have to pay to attract someone to do it in the first place? Hmm, getting quite pricey on those arguments. 

I still wonder if there is anything to be learned from the canals over volunteers.

I and I suspect a lot of you, learned to play football (badly in my case) by kicking a ball against a wall or garage door. So let's try something different: We'll all pay about £100 a season for each of our kids to join the local football club then every Saturday morning they can go and be trained for a couple of hours by a volunteer coach. The coach will have had evening classes in coaching by the FA and DBS checked by the club. All we need is to find volunteer coaches to give up their Saturday mornings and a few evenings to look after someone else's brats.

There is no shortage. I respect all of them as it's something I would never do.

My point is that although we find it unattractive there are people out there who would enjoy it.

[JennyMorgan]

1 hour ago, marshman said:

Like it or not, I think you will find the Rangers job, and volunteer Rangers have to deal with more confrontational issues than they ever did!

I can't for the life of me understand why Rangers should encounter more confrontational issues than they used to. No, just can't fathom that one out. Surely the trust and mutual respect that was there in Aitken Clark's day is still alive and well?

Perhaps I only encounter the more than decent Rangers but I suspect that most, if not all, could deal with any confrontational issues more than adequately. 

[marshman]

Take it from me, volunteers are a dwindling resource these days, indeed to such an extent that I fear for the actual existence of many voluntary organisations. Don't forget that many volunteers fall into the vulnerable category, so as well as having to cope with differing risk assessments, many of them actually feel more vulnerable and that affects whether they feel safe or not! You cannot realistically all sit down and put the world to rights over tea and biscuits - and thats up to half of them!!!

If those comments affect even 50% of those who used to turn up, and it seems it could be worse than that, you can forget about a large number of voluntary organisations you are used to seeing around and enhancing Broadland - and I really do mean that! Museums, historic boats are all being badly affected and I fear once you lose a volunteer, its unlikely they will reappear -  these difficult times are hardly conducive to recruiting new volunteers.

I really hope I am wrong but the days of large numbers of individuals turning up to help may be gone forever - I might be wrong but the portents are not encouraging I am afraid.

[JennyMorgan]

1 hour ago, marshman said:

My guess is they have little or no intervention powers

The Rangers have powers in relation to the Broads Act but that is about it. The Auxiliary Rangers deserve respect and generally their advice should be heeded but I doubt that they have any powers as such. Just so long as their advice is sound. 

[marshman]

PW - I am not talking about the Rangers being confrontational but many Broads users are!!! Or do you never turn the TV on and realise the issues now pervading society?

[OldBerkshireBoy]

6 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

I can't for the life of me understand why Rangers should encounter more confrontational issues than they used to. No, just can't fathom that one out. Surely the trust and mutual respect that was there in Aitken Clark's day is still alive and well?

Perhaps I only encounter the more than decent Rangers but I suspect that most, if not all, could deal with any confrontational issues more than adequately. 

Sorry to tell you old chap that people and their expectations coupled with a changing of attitudes towards others if things don`t suit them has lead to a far more aggressive world since Aitken Clarks time.

[JennyMorgan]

2 minutes ago, marshman said:

I really hope I am wrong but the days of large numbers of individuals turning up to help may be gone forever - I might be wrong but the portents are not encouraging I am afraid.

As one who doesn't volunteer, or at least very rarely now, when I did I had to balance my life between family and my own interests, that doesn't leave much time for volunteering. The same goes for participating in club activities, witness the decline in many club memberships.  

[JennyMorgan]

6 minutes ago, OldBerkshireBoy said:

Sorry to tell you old chap that people and their expectations coupled with a changing of attitudes towards others if things don`t suit them has lead to a far more aggressive world since Aitken Clarks time.

I'm afraid that that is true, but not for all of us. Courtesy and decency does still exist.

[rightsaidfred]

28 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

I can't for the life of me understand why Rangers should encounter more confrontational issues than they used to. No, just can't fathom that one out. Surely the trust and mutual respect that was there in Aitken Clark's day is still alive and well?

Perhaps I only encounter the more than decent Rangers but I suspect that most, if not all, could deal with any confrontational issues more than adequately. 

The problem this year appears to be largely down to the amount of people new to the broads,  in particularl day boats loaded up with booze have been an issue with day boats seeing the biggest increase in hirers, it appears unsoicial behaviour has been a problem in most tourist areas.

Fred

[Oddfellow]

3 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

I can't for the life of me understand why Rangers should encounter more confrontational issues than they used to. No, just can't fathom that one out. Surely the trust and mutual respect that was there in Aitken Clark's day is still alive and well?

Perhaps I only encounter the more than decent Rangers but I suspect that most, if not all, could deal with any confrontational issues more than adequately. 

Don't go there Peter. It's pretty universally felt by everybody I have spoken to in the last few years that deal with the public that they have become more demanding, more belligerent and more confrontational overall. This is especially true this year. I was speaking to the sales manager for a large car dealership group earlier who echoed this. He was saying that people accepted that Covid forced various changes in working practices and that things like accompanying a customer on a drive to find a rattle was not currently possible but that dosen't stop people becoming unreasonable, difficult or just assholes. 

My wife was speaking on the phone earlier to someone who's job it is to contact people who have had to have the phone put down on them when they become abusive. He said there had been two recently and NEVER before had it happened. Academic perhaps, but the problems are societal in my view. It's another element of dealing with the public that I won't miss at the end of next week. 

 

[JennyMorgan]

41 minutes ago, FreedomBoatingHols said:

My wife was speaking on the phone earlier to someone who's job it is to contact people who have had to have the phone put down on them when they become abusive.

Think that we have to blame tele-sales companies for that, especially Zenith double glazing. I have to admit to now being mega suspicious of even the most well meaning of call centre staff! 

[750XL]

As to who would do the job for 'only' £19k a year... I'd bet money on the fact that if the Broads Authority advertised for 1 ranger position, they'd get thousands of applications within only a week! Especially given the current state of affairs.

Having been made redundant 3 times in the past 12 months in the airline industry, I'd probably be one of them! 

[marshman]

Yes but even PW and other well known posters will confirm it is a not easy to get accepted!!

And now as well, you may well have to spend your winter days with waders on clearing scrub on a flooded marsh - you may well change your tune then!!

[rightsaidfred]

6 minutes ago, marshman said:

Yes but even PW and other well known posters will confirm it is a not easy to get accepted!!

And now as well, you may well have to spend your winter days with waders on clearing scrub on a flooded marsh - you may well change your tune then!!

The four seasonal rangers would just be on an annual contract for the season I dont believe it includes winter work.

Fred

[750XL]

14 minutes ago, marshman said:

Yes but even PW and other well known posters will confirm it is a not easy to get accepted!!

And now as well, you may well have to spend your winter days with waders on clearing scrub on a flooded marsh - you may well change your tune then!!

Absolutely, I was more referring to the below statement from an earlier poster:

Quote

So what kind of person would want that job and how much would you have to pay to attract someone to do it in the first place? Hmm, getting quite pricey on those arguments. 

By which I meant, a £19,000 salary will attract thousands (if not tens of thousands) of applicants from around the country and abroad I'm sure. Whether the job is floating around lapping up the summer rays, or scraping goose poo off pontoons in the middle of December - there will be no shortage of people willing to do the work. Especially for something which is, in essence, a fairly average unskilled job. 

[JennyMorgan]

35 minutes ago, marshman said:

Yes but even PW and other well known posters will confirm it is a not easy to get accepted!!

Be prepared to take the knee for the mythical BNP and don't admit to knowing anything about the Broads, easy!

[floydraser]

On 22/10/2020 at 23:01, BroadAmbition said:

Average increase on private boats being 4% and how to market this (lets call it less than a tenner, what can you get for a tenner nowadays sort of marketing).

This really gets my bolt action, it really does.  Each and every year the increase is above the annual rate of inflation, this in turn compounds the following yearly increase into being far higher when done by a percentage.  Of course all private owners will 'Fall For' the line  -  'It's only a tenner' as we are all to dense to add up year to year and being the 'Little people' what does it matter anyroadup ?

When we first tolled 'B.A' in 2007 the price was £275:00.  During the last thirteen years we arrive here in 2020 and the price was more than double that at nearly £560:00.  IF we had 'Enjoyed' an average annual increase of 3% - Fair (Some hope) then the toll for 'B.A' this year would have been 'Only' £403 so I reckon we are down £157 and that's just this year alone! 

Griff

Having thought about Griff's comment a bit more I'm thinking it's a shame only 3 of us reacted to it. I'm fairly confident the BA will be monitoring all comments especially on this subject and I would hope they may sit up and take a bit more notice when those of us who are not consistently BA bashing make what we believe to be a valid point.

Apart from inflation, now let's dial in the "penalty" introduced for internal combustion engines. Another little money maker based on the latest pc trends. I wonder how many more private owners feel they've been ever so slightly stitched up? Given more thought a better system may have been the generational approach: apply the system to all new registrations and even take engine size/HP into account.

Given it's 50 year life, my diesel has been relatively speaking, very eco-friendly. There is no incentive to change, just an incentive to not have it. There may be an incentive to change shortly though: When my 75 to the gallon Corsa goes bang it will need replacing. The 280 mile round trip is too far for an electric (recharging away from home is more expensive than diesel) but the cost saving of moving the boat nearer to home (away from the Broads) could be worth the shipping cost etc. But that's just me.

3% of something is better than 100% of nowt.