Hull Thickness Caribbean 39 And Carribbean 42

[Carole]

Hi does anyone know the hull thickness of a Caribbean 39 and a Caribbean 42 please. Many thanks.  Carole

[Turnoar]

I think that could vary for various factors, date of build, build team etc., like British Leyland. Best bet is to remove a skin fitting if in the vicinity of where you want to know, ashore of course. I’m told some very early hulls were laid up very thick as the laminators were used to building in wood previously and seemed to think it should be similar to be strong enough, judging by the weight of some older grp boats could easily be an inch or more in the bottom in the higher stress areas. 

May I ask for what reason you wish to know?

[Carole]

1 hour ago, Turnoar said:

I think that could vary for various factors, date of build, build team etc., like British Leyland. Best bet is to remove a skin fitting if in the vicinity of where you want to know, ashore of course. I’m told some very early hulls were laid up very thick as the laminators were used to building in wood previously and seemed to think it should be similar to be strong enough, judging by the weight of some older grp boats could easily be an inch or more in the bottom in the higher stress areas. 

May I ask for what reason you wish to know?

Because my stepson and his gf want to buy one and put it on the river crouch. Where they will moor is a drying berth, they will sit on medium soft mud for about 8 hours in 12 and I'm worried that the boat was designed to float not sit on mud on a tidal river.  Any ideas??? Thank you. 

[Turnoar]

Ive seen similar craft on drying out moorings, including the broads from time to time though not always intentionally, and not heard of damage arising; many grp and probably some more lightly built smaller boats seem to adorn such estuary anchorages. Need to be wary of any skin fittings or other potential breeches of the hull before it starts to float on the rising tide. Have seen a calypso sunk on the bure once possibly due to tide fall, tilt on mooring lines and water then washing in, glug!

I seem to think the ones that went to france were towed across in raft formation so the hulls must have been as robust as any sea going leisure vessel of their era. I would expect the bottom and round of the chine to be thicker than the sides or top. Certainly not designed for drying out berths as they'd have triple keels ideally. Doubt it would be practical to add legs!

 

[ChrisB]

The last time I was in Woodbridge, admittedly some 3 years ago there was one moored in the livaboard area.  They are dying moorings.

As with all drying moorings it all depends on how hard the bottom is and how calm the water is as the craft takes the ground.

I can't see mud being a problem and the weight should be well distributed with that type of boat, it is hard sand that does damage and have seen stress around the keels of a Centaur that bumped onto sand 2x a day after 3 or 4years and Westerlys were layed up really heavy in that area but bilge keels onto a hard surface are fine if it is flat calm, it is when there are even small waves and she "Bumps" for a while the keels providing a point loading.

[Vaughan]

I agree with Turnoar.  If these are genuine Wilds hulls they will have been laid up very thick, as these were the early days of GRP construction.  Can't say the same for those laid up later by another yard, using the same mould tools!

They are also a Broads design, which can sit happily on the long keel, having been winched up a slipway into a shed.

Personally I wouldn't like to go on a drying out berth without bilge keels as these boats will lean over a lot if they run aground.  I can also see that all the weight coming onto the keel might sink it deep into the mud and cause problems of suction when the tide rises again. There could also be propellor damage.

The original Blue Line boats for France were indeed delivered by water across the Channel and down the French Canal system to the Canal du Midi.  A journey taking 2 to 3 weeks, rafted up 4 or even 6 at a time but driven under their own power, single handed, by a crazy Dutchman.  I forget his name now, but he never lost a boat, as far as I know!

[WherryNice]

6 hours ago, Vaughan said:

The original Blue Line boats for France were indeed delivered by water across the Channel and down the French Canal system to the Canal du Midi.  A journey taking 2 to 3 weeks, rafted up 4 or even 6 at a time but driven under their own power, single handed, by a crazy Dutchman.  I forget his name now, but he never lost a boat, as far as I know!

I was told this story by some crane operators(hired in - a Norwich firm but forget the name) on winter lift out day at a yard by Wayford Bridge. The crane guys had been boat builders/engineers at Moonraker(among others) in the 70's and had plenty of stories from the time which had me fascinated, the world certainly seems different nowadays!

The boats going across to France apparently would have boards put up in the front wells to keep the spray out and "you had to pick your weather" and go for it! Fun times it would seem!

 

[oldgregg]

@Vaughan will probably know if it's the same guy or not, but I know a lot of boats used to make the journey across to Ireland under their own power as well. 

[andyg]

1 hour ago, oldgregg said:

@Vaughan will probably know if it's the same guy or not, but I know a lot of boats used to make the journey across to Ireland under their own power as well. 

That's really interesting, I know very little about boat designs, I've always assumed most broads cruisers were built for inland waterways only and you couldn't take them to sea. Don't think I'd fancy crossing the Channel or Irish sea in one. I struggle on the big car ferries with sea sickness. 

[oldgregg]

Well the stuff that went across to Ireland mostly had plenty of freeboard and a decent layup. I'm thinking more of solid dual-steer Aquafibre builds rather than a bathtub.

They need it over there  (along with the bigger engines the boats tend to have) because some of the Loughs can be a bit like the sea when weather is poor.

Apart from the tidal parts close to Yarmouth, the Broads is really pretty tame compared to many waterways.

[Vaughan]

2 hours ago, andyg said:

I've always assumed most broads cruisers were built for inland waterways only and you couldn't take them to sea.

This was in the old days when Broads boats were built without any specific standards.  Nowadays all boats are built to ERCD standards, of which cat D, which applies to the Broads, only allows you out off shore for a certain distance "from shelter".  I think it is three nautical miles, from memory.  Cat C, I think, is 10 miles, so you still probably couldn't cross the channel in one.

There is no specific building standard in Europe (as far as I know) for inland waterways, so most countries insist on a minimum of ERCD cat D, which is actually a sea regulation.

Broad Ambition can go bombing about along the coast where she likes, as she was built before the regulations!

[Vaughan]

3 hours ago, oldgregg said:

will probably know if it's the same guy or not, but I know a lot of boats used to make the journey across to Ireland under their own power as well. 

I don't know about Ireland, but the crazy Dutchman was delivering boats for Blue Line back in the late 60's, when their French operation was quite new.  In those days, Blue Line's main base was in Marseillan, on the étang de Thau, before they moved to the Beaver fleet base at Port Cassafieres, when both companies were bought by Crown Cruisers, of Somerleyton, and became Crown Blue line.  Beaver Fleet by the way, was not the original yard at Someleyton but a new company in St Olaves, on a yard later operated by Alphacraft.

The history of Broads businesses tends to be a bit incestuous!

As the base was in Marseillan, this meant a trot of 6 Caribbeans, lashed together in pairs, would pass through all the locks in northern France and all down the Rhone, without having to be split up.  An awful lot of work to do single-handed, though!  I have towed up to seven boats on my own on several occasions when getting them back to a base, but never over that kind of distance!

In the end they gave up this method of delivery as it took too long and there was too much minor damage on the way.  All the boats needed a re-fit by the time they got there and they were supposed to be new!

[andyg]

46 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

This was in the old days when Broads boats were built without any specific standards.  Nowadays all boats are built to ERCD standards, of which cat D, which applies to the Broads, only allows you out off shore for a certain distance "from shelter".  I think it is three nautical miles, from memory.  Cat C, I think, is 10 miles, so you still probably couldn't cross the channel in one.

There is no specific building standard in Europe (as far as I know) for inland waterways, so most countries insist on a minimum of ERCD cat D, which is actually a sea regulation.

Broad Ambition can go bombing about along the coast where she likes, as she was built before the regulations!

Cheers Vaughan very informative 👍

[NeilB]

The RCD boat categories are a set of standards boat builders design and build boats to.  They are as follows.

CATEGORY A: OCEAN

This rating covers largely self-sufficient boats designed for extended voyages with winds of over Beaufort Force 8 (over 40 knots), and significant wave heights above 13 feet, but excluding abnormal conditions such as hurricanes.

CATEGORY B: OFFSHORE

This rating includes boats operating offshore with winds to 40 knots and significant seas to 13 feet.

CATEGORY C – INSHORE

This rating is for boats operating in coastal waters and large bays and lakes with winds to Force 6, up to 27 knots, and significant seas 7 feet high.

CATEGORY D – INLAND OR SHELTERED COASTAL WATERS

This rating is for boats in small lakes and rivers with winds to Force 4 and significant wave heights to 18 inches.
 

There’s no actual law stopping you from going to sea on a lilo!!

Incidentally the RCD is going to be replaced by UKCA due to Brexit, although I’ve not looked into it yet.

[BroadAmbition]

Broad Ambition can go bombing about along the coast where she likes, as she was built before the regulations!

Yes and she does too, but not without plenty of 'P.P.P.P.P.P' beforehand in the way of nav and safety gear related to the briny that we don't normally carry onboard

Griff

[Vaughan]

8 hours ago, BroadAmbition said:

Yes and she does too, but not without plenty of 'P.P.P.P.P.P' beforehand in the way of nav and safety gear related to the briny that we don't normally carry onboard

That is what I would call seamanship, rather than just regulation!