Raf Museum Cosford.

[floydraser]

One of the benefits of being retired is being able to clear off where you like, when you like and this is what I did last Friday 23rd.

Mrs Raser had a couple of things to do so I took the opportunity to clear off to Cosford, Shropshire, to what is now called the RAF Museum Midlands. This is because a group of thirty year olds probably got together in a room and decided they needed to change something; fix something was never broke. It used to be RAF Museum Cosford and is still referred to as such on most websites and by most aircraft enthusiasts.

Hendon is now RAF Museum London. I would have thought any foreign tourist who made it this far would have the wherewithal to find Hendon. Now they'll go to Tower Bridge and ask a policeman. Best of luck with that one.

It's any excuse to go by train for me these days so I did. Cosford station is ½ mile from the museum even though the railway line dissects the actual RAF Cosford; the barracks and training facilities one side, the airfield and museum the other. I arrived at 13.15 so first thing was lunch in the “Airfield Kitchen” in the entrance hall. Tea was reasonable, in a good sized mug but although the place didn't seem that busy, my panini took 20 minutes to appear by which time the tea was lukewarm. And it was just that, a panini and nothing else for £6.50. I didn't mind that but the receipt said “Levy Restaurants” so not all the profit went to the museum. I also noted that the car park was within the museum grounds and therefore access to the car is very convenient. Next time I'll take the car and a packed lunch, and make a donation direct to the museum. On Google Streetview the car park shows two charges but now there's just the one - £7.50 for 7 hours.

The museum is free but timed entry, like a lot places now; a legacy of Covid I guess. I don't think it's strictly enforced though. The displays are very well laid out and presented. Some aircraft have modern lighting inside to illuminate the detail. I never knew of the existence of the Avro Lincoln, a huge thing. They have one at Cosford, think Lancaster on steroids.

I recommend a visit but budget a lot of time. I was there for just over two hours and got to see most of what was inside but not all outside. Next time I'll go by car, take my own food and allow about 4 hours to take it all in. I did notice some of the outside planes had steps which were blocked off so I would guess these may be open during weekends in the summer when volunteers are available.

Some of you here would have enjoyed the conversations I overheard on the station platform while waiting to come home. About 50 apprentices discussing discipline, inspections, where they want to go – Waddington for the Red Arrows, Brize Norton for bigger aircraft – and the price of Jager bombs. Ahem, yes I know, the latter was NOT something they learned about in armaments training!

Positive, intelligent youngsters who want to get on and work. There are some.

[dom]

My grandfather was a Lancaster pilot in WW2. He survived his full tour and lived well into his 90s, but died in 2013. After he died, I was inspired to visit a couple of related museums and it turned into a bit of an obsession. I set about trying to visit every aviation museum in the UK - something which got cut short by Covid and I need to get back to.

Cosford was a definite favourite. I suspect I probably spent more than 4 hours looking around. If you're a southerner and drive up, stay overnight and take a trip to Ironbridge at the same time as it's stunning.

I did Hendon too, but thought it was a bit dirty and run down when I visited. It's great that it's free to enter, but I think I'd rather have paid a nominal charge to help improve the place.

If you love the WW2 era stuff, I'd thoroughly recommend a trip to Lincolnshire Aviation Heritage Centre at East Kirkby. Not the biggest of museums, but all set in the original WW2 buildings which is very atmospheric. They also have "Just Jane", the UK's second Lancaster being restored to flying condition and a taxying Mosquito. Their air show is also well worth a visit, as they usually have a mixed aircraft/pyrotechnic display.

If you're into newer stuff, stick a visit to RIAT on your bucket list. It's promoted as the world's largest military airshow. I suspect the Yanks probably beat it these days, but it's massive nonetheless with some phenomenal jet displays. Just one word of advice though - take a hat and a ton of sunscreen. It's all on tarmac runways and I got the worst sunburn of my life there!

[SueH]

Cosford.  Brings back memories.  Did my Trade Training there in the 70s.  Hapoy days.  Been to the museum a few times since.

[grendel]

and if you are ever near Manston, the museum there is only small, but well worth the visit.

[grendel]

an old friend of mine has helped his mate rebuild a rolls royce merlin engine, they have it on a trailer and run it up at the air museums on occasion - they have also been known to tow it to some remote spot to fire it up and run it for a few minutes, then quickly scarper before anyone comes to find out where the noise is coming from.

[dom]

I'm a Battle of Britain Memorial Flight member. Every year, there's a member's day and a big scrum for tickets. Just before Covid, I managed to get a ticket. The main point of the day is to see a special flying display. Typically, I managed to pick a year when it chucked it down with rain, so the entire flight of planes was grounded. To make up for some of the disappointment, they positioned the Lanc in front of the hanger and did a full power engine run with all 4 Merlins. The sound of a Lanc always makes every hair stand on end for me, but close up at ground level, it's incredible and not something I'll forget in a hurry. I did also manage to see the two Lancasters flying together a couple of times when the Canadians brought theirs over, which was pretty special too.

[grendel]

we also have the spitfire memorial at the top of the cliffs between folkestone and dover, its a good place to watch any air display at folkestone because any spitfire passing will always fly up and over the edge of the cliff and give a wing waggle just over the memorial- and that happens any time a spitfire passes, I think its a point of honour that they do it, the museum there is shaped like a spitfires wing.

[grendel]

[dom]

I've always been more into the bomber side of things due to my grandfather. Because of that, I've tended not to go to Duxford airshows, despite the fact it's just down the road from here (and also ridiculously expensive). Every year, they'd do a Balbo formation with Spitfires and Hurricances. I think the last one got up to 20 aircraft. Just as I decided that I needed to go see the next one, the show where it happened moved away from Duxford. I'm a bit gutted I missed it, as I think the likelihood of seeing another formation of that size is now fairly slim.

[floydraser]

Merlin engines occasionally come up for sale on Facebook Marketplace along with other interesting and divers stuff, but that's another thread.

I haven't been to Duxford for donkey's years so there's somewhere else...

Old Warden is another place. I took the kids there when they were young, to the final show of the season. I'll never forget seeing the guy flying a collection of sticks and bedsheets while sitting on a plank!

We visited Hendon in 2015 the day after watching England get their a*ses kicked out of the World Cup at Twickenham. It was on the way home and I thought it was a chance to check it out as we were passing, sort of. I was enraged when the person behind the reception desk answered "How much is it to come in?" with "The guide book is £5 and the entry is just there". "So entry is free?" They repeated what they said before. "Tell you what, I'll have a look round and if it's any good I'll give you something on the way out". It was very good apart from the downright cheek of that person.

 

[dom]

I was thinking earlier about what are the "best" UK aviation destinations I've seen so far.

Duxford is definitely the shiniest and best presented by a mile - but also a pretty expensive day out, and especially for shows.

Shuttleworth (Old Warden) is I think probably the classiest. If you go to the Summer Evening Air Show and happen to strike it lucky and get a proper summer evening, it's magical - especially if winds are low and they manage to get the Edwardian stuff up in the air. It also has a nice flight line in relation to the crowd position. The only thing I've not done is visit the Flying Proms they have there. I suspect the Dambuster's March played live to the accompaniment of a Lancaster flypast might well result in a few tears.

The De Havilland museum was another favourite of mine - partly because I come from generations of woodworkers and they have several Mosquitos and partly because my grandfather flew a Vampire just a few years after the RAF got their first jets. One of the last conversations I had with him was about how amazing it felt to fly. If you go on a nice day in summer and they have enough volunteers, you can also sit in the cockpits of some of the planes which other museums wouldn't even let you touch. It's all very shabby and chaotic, but set in the original design and development location for the Mosquito, so fascinating nonetheless.

[RumPunch]

14 hours ago, SueH said:

Cosford.  Brings back memories.  Did my Trade Training there in the 70s.  Hapoy days.  Been to the museum a few times since.

2 SofTT - electric string weaving ?

[BrundallNavy]

I’m booked in for a Vulcan flight later this year. Can’t wait as I have a soft spot for these magnificent birds. 

[CeePee1952]

16 hours ago, SueH said:

Cosford.  Brings back memories.  Did my Trade Training there in the 70s.  Hapoy days.  Been to the museum a few times since.

I attended a 6 month photography course there at the Joint School of Photography (JSOP) back in 1973 prior to a posting to NI. Compared to our army barracks in Germany at the time, the accommodation at Cosford was palatial!! Never forget waking up to piped radio in the mornings and the Mess was way above army standards!  We've also been back to the museum a couple of times.

Chris

[floydraser]

So does anyone fancy trying to use one of these?

I didn't know such a thing existed until relatively recently so I'll assume someone here has more knowledge and experience than me, and can explain what it is?

[dom]

Pretty sure it's a bubble sextant or octant for navigation in aviation. I only know that from visiting endless WW2 museums.

Quite how you use it is another matter altogether. I have a vague recollection that a tutor on a Day Skipper course I did years ago briefly discussed celestial navigation, but not much of it sunk in at the time, and what little did has long gone.

[Regulo]

It's a flux capacitor from someone's DeLorean. 

[floydraser]

18 hours ago, Regulo said:

It's a flux capacitor from someone's DeLorean. 

Bang on! Your great great great grandaughter says hello. 

[floydraser]

You've let me down. I really thought someone was going to explain from an experienced point of view, what this is and why they were hated.  I'll do my best:

Dom's correct, it's a bubble sextant. This is a 1943 version and they were used mainly in bombers. They weren't allocated to any particular bomber so this one could have been on famous raids or none at all. For me it still represents the RAF in WW2.

Referring to pictures 3 and 4 – there's an elongated oval hole in the front where the mirror is. There's a hole in the top with a sliding cover, and there's a lens on the rear. The lens you see is one of two on a bracket and the other one is in use as you see it; you swing the bracket to use the one seen here.

The hole in the top allows light in to illuminate the bubble which you have to get within a circle to get it level. In the dark you slide the cover shut and a 4v lamp illuminates it, batteries in the handle.

On the right hand side you see a **** for setting the degrees and a thumb wheel for the minutes, shown at the bottom.

So you ask the pilot to maintain a steady altitude for the next few minutes, preferably a number to aid calculations? Then try and get a fix on your selected celestial body while keeping the bubble in the circle. Do it a few times to get an average then consult your reference books, taking into account the altitude. Then ask a policeman. Those who used them may say the latter would have been more accurate.

This posh version from 1943 has a drum on the front containing a clockwork averaging mechanism. You pulled the trigger and it somehow took a reading every second or so and after minute gave you an average. Then you asked a policeman.

Navigators hated them apparently.

I get my kids to have a go and they first complain it's heavy. Then when they get the hang of it I shake them and make engine noises in their ear.

*** Guess what you have to use to set the degrees?? I could edit it but I can't for laughing! 

[dom]

Now explain the difference between a sextant and an octant

I have quite a lot of WW2 training documentation which I inhereted from my grandfather (plus some other v.rare stuff like German language propaganda flyers dropped whilst on raids). Unfortunately, it's all in storage at the moment, but I suspect there's probably some navigation training in amongst it.

The thing I always find hard to comprehend is that airmen underwent extensive and lengthy training on these things, often running into months - only to then be lost, sometimes even on their first raid. Pilots used to get shipped over to Canada, learnt to fly, got shipped back again (often in convoys which got attacked and sunk), then spent weeks in training at conversion units before they flew their first ops. I don't think it was much easier for navigators - or the rest of the crew. It makes me really sad that younger people who are aware of and appreciate all this are becoming increasingly uncommon.

[TheQ]

All this mention of RAF museums !!! 

I must mention..

https://www.radarmuseum.co.uk/

Opens 29th March this year, closed Sundays and Mondays.

Open 10:00 to 17:00,

Allow 4 to 5 hours to get round it all.

There are WW2 and  Cold war lectures on twice each day. What guides there are in other rooms depends on the volunteers available each day.

Most weeks, I'll be there for one day in the Radar history room.. My blazer is pressed and ready.

Under a mile from Horning Staithe to the museum, well under if the ground is dry enough to cross the field by the public foot path.

 

[floydraser]

49 minutes ago, TheQ said:

All this mention of RAF museums !!! 

I must mention..

https://www.radarmuseum.co.uk/

Opens 29th March this year, closed Sundays and Mondays.

Open 10:00 to 17:00,

Allow 4 to 5 hours to get round it all.

There are WW2 and  Cold war lectures on twice each day. What guides there are in other rooms depends on the volunteers available each day.

Most weeks, I'll be there for one day in the Radar history room.. My blazer is pressed and ready.

Under a mile from Horning Staithe to the museum, well under if the ground is dry enough to cross the field by the public foot path.

 

It's on my list of must sees. I'll be there during the summer.