Less small boats?

[JennyMorgan]

Yesterday was an interesting day. The actual quest was for a replacement outboard for our dory. Many phone calls later it was clear that second-hand engines are about as rare as rocking-horse droppings due to the numerous thefts last winter. Anyway, with a few recommendations from 'Polly' who had recently been on the same trail, my wife and I set off with the intention of visiting every possible location for a suitable engine. We did locate one potential outboard but at a price. We actually ended up at 'Nearest & Dearest' in Hoveton where we were well treated and we are now the proud owners of a brand new motor at about one third more than the nine year old one on offer, no contest.

 

Anyway, apart from a lack of s/h outboards, what we did notice was the huge number of small boats up for sale and out of the water, in August! This wasn't just at one yard, it was pretty much a general situation. A recent Broads Authority survey of tolls reported a 40 boat drop in 'small' cruisers, 40 as a percentage of tolled boats is nothing exceptional but it would be interesting to know what the % drop is in relation to small cruisers.

 

Is it that people have moved up from small cruisers, or that those who can 'only' afford a small boat have been priced out of the market? On the Drascombe owners website the subject has also been discussed and clearly the increase in small boats for sale is pretty general.

 

Was a time when Shetlands, for example, and 20/24 foot long boats were common, not now. I suspect that marinas would rather have one 36 footer than they would two 18 footers. My feelings is that the year on year toll increases for small boats are out of proportion to their value for one thing. Thankfully I have my own mooring but I suspect that the costs of moorings is similarly prohibitive to those who can only afford small boats. Am i right in suggesting that the Broads is increasingly less inclusive? It certainly appears that way.

 

Probably two thirds of the mooring buoys on Oulton Broad are vacant this year, was a time when there was a waiting list. 

[MauriceMynah]

As we are all well aware, there will be many factors leading to the answers to your questions. Yes I'm sure that there will be those who were boating on a shoestring budget and that the recession has lead to the necessity of selling the boat. It will be more likely than not that this will hit the owners of the smaller boats more than the owners of the larger ones.

Add that to the people who are upgrading and the effect becomes more noticeable.

Many hire fleets are upgrading too so here are quite a few boats like mine (27ft Elysian) on the market. The price of those is dropping slightly, leading them to be only a little more money with far more accommodation.

Whilst I agree that the rates of the tolls could be fairer, I don't think it's the owners of 18 to 24ft craft that have drawn the short straw. In my opinion it's the dinghy & outboard owners who are really hammered.

 

The bottom line however is that whatever rates the BA charge for the tolls, there will be legitimate shouts of "Unfair", as there is no "fair" way of doing it.

[Guest]

It's a difficult question to find the answer to Peter.

 

Boat ownership anywhere in the UK seems to be much more fickle these days that years ago when it was more the province of dedicated enthusiasts.

 

In the same way that hire craft now seem to be almost exclusively luxury 40 footers, rather than the wide variation of craft of all sizes back in the 60's.

 

I'd agree completely that the BA's toll structure for really small craft is far too expensive compared to their value and impact on the system.

 

A tiny 8ft inflatable dinghy with a 2hp outboard motor is almost a quarter of the toll of a 40ft cruiser, a ludicrous situation.

 

Last year the BA did, for the first time, impose a variable percentage toll increase that started to favour smaller boats.  It was very disappointing however, when this was "redressed" this year, with a variable percentage favouring larger boats.

 

Even more disappointing that it seemed to be driven by the NSBA.

[C.Ricko]

its a bit the same as cars, there are lots of £40k mercs a few years old which sell for £1.5k, when they go wrong they get broken for spares or scrapped I guess because if you can afford the petrol then you can afford a better car?

people don't cut up fiberglass boats but if you can afford an outboard engine then the chances are the engine is worth more than the boat. also, a mooring is a mooring and the toll is the toll...

[JennyMorgan]

Strangely enough I've been involved with cutting up a sailing boat recently. The keel had 'exploded', the steel punchings having rusted and expanded. Regarding disposal, nightmare! We ended up cutting it into manageable chunks in the end and disposing of it chunk by chunk but that is another story. 

 

Clive, quite right, good dories about £600.00, new engine about £2,000.00. No logic really but still very handy on the Broads.

Re moorings though, many folk can neither afford nor want marina style moorings, Something rather more basic is all that is required, but basic moorings are at a massive premium, or so it seems. Up on the canals there does appear to be more boat moorings between posts rather than alongside floating jetties for example. I do think that the BA is going to have to get off its idealistic horse and allow a few low lying marshes to be flooded and more moorings created, with a proportion of both affordable and residential ones available. 

[ranworthbreeze]

Hi Peter,

At one time mooring was charged per foot/metre now, of course many moorings charge still by foot/metre but they also have a minimum size.

Regards

Alan

[littlesprite]

At 27 foot I guess my boat is considered by some to be small, I have to pay mooring on a minimum 30 foot which seems harsh as I'm stern on, yet with only 9 ft 6" beam I get no discount over someone with 12 ft 6" beam.

 

Life's a bitch, then you marry one, then you die. 

[MBA Marine]

I have not been on the rivers much this year to notice a difference, but from a repair point of view i have not noticed any change, I have had the busiest year of my life working boats large and small, I am at a point where I should expand but that's really not for me I don't want the business to grow.

If there is a movement pushing the lower end users out it is not effecting me, and my business in the past has been dependent on those who could not afford boat yard repair bills.

[kadensa]

Strangely enough I've been involved with cutting up a sailing boat recently. The keel had 'exploded', the steel punchings having rusted and expanded. Regarding disposal, nightmare! We ended up cutting it into manageable chunks in the end and disposing of it chunk by chunk but that is another story. 

 

We, too, are in the process of cutting up a fibreglass boat at the moment (broke its back on the trailer) and I suspect are disposing of it in the same way as JM.

[MauriceMynah]

Oh, one final thing Peter...

FEWER!

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

There are some really good points raised here, and i seem to remember "Jonny" raising a point regarding stern on moorings (similar to above)  some time ago. It`s a very valid point to question why someone who moors stern on should pay the same as someone else with a boat 30% wider. If a mooring is payed by footage, it sould also be the same as length. When you cruise down the Chet, have a look at the moorings at Loddon, most of which are stern on, but they will always be charged by the "Length".

 

I`ve also often questioned the fairness of charging people for a minimum length. If there are 2 20ft boats both wanting a mooring, it costs no more than 1 40ftr so why charge them for an extra 50% each, thus charging for 60ft?, GREED, that`s all. Maybe some authority (the BA?) should investigate the yards and issue a license to allow them to only charge for the amount of river frontage used for moorings.  If they use 100ft of river frontage for moorings, then they would be falling foul of their license by charging a minimum length charge for theoretically charging for 150ft of boats, on a 100ft stretch of moorings, (if you see what i`m getting at?).

 

It seems that big buisness is only interrested i making the biggest buck possible via what some may say is unscrupulous means, rather than offer the public a service, and value for money.

 

As a result, it`s very refreshing to see Mark (MBA Marine) keeping his buisness at a size that benefits his customers, well done Mark :clap .

 

 

I did wonder whether it was possible to do on the broads what you can do on the Thame and Medway, whatever mooring you had in the main river, you always had to pay a fee to the crown commisioners (or whatever they`re called), but what you could do was contact the Medway ports authority and apply for a mooring location, which you were then issued with a chart grid reference point, then you had to make and sink your own mooring, a friend of my dads did exactly that off Gravesend sailing club in the 70s or 80s, and had it for many years. I don`t know ehether you can still do that there anymore, but you certainly can`t down here in Poole harbour, as all the mooring spots were sold (or maybe leased?) to all the expensive marinas, with the harbour authority making big money and the moorings now costing a fortune, thus driving away a lot of the small boat owner./

 

 

Regards to all ........................ Neil.

[Guest]

......I`ve also often questioned the fairness of charging people for a minimum length. If there are 2 20ft boats both wanting a mooring, it costs no more than 1 40ftr so why charge them for an extra 50% each, thus charging for 60ft?, GREED, that`s all. .......

 

Most Marinas have a minimum length charge because the moorings are pre laid out to all take average sized boats. 

 

The individual "wasted" spaces are not contiguous, so are very rarely large enough to accommodate another small boat.