Will this work / is it safe?

[LadyPatricia]

Hi all,

We are wanting to fit shore power to our little Norman. Usage will only be for a DAB radio and charging phones when moored up overnight.

What we want to do is purchase one of these wall sockets and mount it to the external part of the cabin bulkhead somewhere near the helm position. Then inside the cabin (just the other side of the bulkhead) wire in one of the extension leads with a built in circuit breaker through the bulkhead and into the socket

The question is, is it safe and will there be any issue with a boat safety test?

Also if it will work and be ok is it the 32A version we will need.

Steve & Deb

[JawsOrca]

Hi Steve,

 

If you want to do that, I wouldn't but the plug on the boat as then the BSC chap may see it as an installed system etc etc.. You can plug the end of the multiplug directly into the bollard on shore. This wouldn't be seen as an installed system then.. it's RCD protected so it's "safe" (although I wouldn't leave it unattended).

 

If you want to go for a permenant 240v system then you need much the same set up as in your house.  Which I can't advise any further. We don't have a 240v system installed in our (toy) boat and I don't want one as 12v does all you need really

 

Your DAB and phone chargers should run of the 12v system using ciggy lighters.. So I'd look at this first.

 

[Guest]

Hi all,

We are wanting to fit shore power to our little Norman. Usage will only be for a DAB radio and charging phones when moored up overnight.......

 

If you genuinely believe that will be you only usage, then shorepower would be far in excess of what you need to accomplish it.

 

The radio and the phone chargers would consume absolutely minimal amperage, so they are well within the capacity of a cheap self contained inverter that simply plugs into a 12v socket.

 

Even left on overnight, the draw on the battery would be very little.

 

http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/nikkai-12v-modified-sinewave-150w-inverter-with-usb-charging-socket-a00jz

 

Much easier than trying to find a vacant shorepower post.

 

They're only really needed for much higher amperages, like fridges, kettles, heaters, and battery charging.

[LadyPatricia]

Thanks Strow and Alan.

DAB is all we want, we've said right from the start that we will never put a TV on the boat. A little music and the art of conversation is all we will need. Either that or Deb will be reading her kindle and I'll be outside fishing

The only reason I was thinking about the socket Alan was to avoid having to leave a door or window open if the weathers not too good.

Strow I already have a 300w inverter i use in my van so may just take that aboard when we go - good idea, I never even thought of that

Steve

[ranworthbreeze]

Hi Steve,

This is a typical shore power bulkhead inlet plug:-

http://www.force4.co.uk/department/electrical/inverters-battery-chargers-shore-power/marinco-non-metallic-shore-power-inlet-16a.html

You can however buy a similar bulkhead plug to the one in your picture on the same site for a quarter of the price but these like all the Broads power posts are only shower proof.

Regards

Alan

[LadyPatricia]

Thanks Alan,

The pic was just to show what I was thinking. We've not looked at any specific units yet but if we do decide to go down that route then force4 will be a def point to call in on.

I think for this season we will use strowy's suggestion with the inverter

Steve

[JawsOrca]

Steve google about before going to force 4.. I know they are local but they aren't the cheapest.. and don't forget Brian wards you get 10% off using the kind "NBN" discount (which helps!)...

[Viking23]

Another point regarding shore power, you can't always guarantee that here will be a vacant mooring at the shore power point, let alone there will be a vacant socket.

So as suggested an alternative power supply would be better for your application.

It might be worth considering a second battery, and maybe a decent charger so that when you do get onto shore power, you can charge your batteries.

Enjoy your boat.

[ZimbiIV]

Hi all I can say is go for a properly installed ring main.

This may seem excessive but then, with safe shore power you can have a microwave, kettle etc. We do have a telly on board but mainly use it when in our marina.

We have a battery powered DAB radio from Aldi that is always on while moving uses about 4 C type batteries every 6 weeks of use.

It's a bit like this we had never had a bow thruster BUT now it is a must.

I didn't like power steering in a car until my second TVR had it. Now can you imagine a car without it.

Roughing is ok but why have a boat with an engine when you can make it move with oars and slaves.

The only cheap way to have a boat is DON'T have one, same could be said of a wife, have someone's else.

I really hope Jill doesn't read this!!!!

paul

[Mowjo]

Have to agree with Paul, if your going to do it, go for the ring main with something like this,  http://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/240v-mains-hook-up-installation-kit-for-caravans-motorhomes-boats.html  you seem to have a bit of common sense so it wouldn't be hard for you to fit, apart from the advantages Paul says, it's very handy if you do a bit of out of season boating, nice to be able to put that little fan heater on to keep warm, my friends even have an electric blanket, in the marina!  no more leads if your working in the boat, just plug in and off you go, I've only had full shore power on my last two boats and now I wonder how I ever did without it, we use the boat or I'm working on it all year round now with no problem, nice in the winter, no problems getting power at 24hr moorings, at the Wroxham one a £1.00 card last us all weekend and thats with computers, heaters, kettle and lights,, as I said if your confident enough to fit the set up you mention the ring main won't be a problem to you,,

 

Frank,,,,

 

I forgot to mention all the stuff in the kit you can buy from places like Screwfit, B&Q for a lot less money, and I run the socket for the Fan heater or power tools off it's own fuse/MCB, that way it won't trip out if you put something like the kettle on at the same time, everything else is run off the other fuse/MCB

[Polly]

Just make sure the kit you buy is suitable for marine application. We got our shore power put in by LBBY and safety was Jason's top priority.

The installation is well hidden, this is a classic boat, but we can run lots of appliances when moored up. Ours is a woody with an induction hob, for example, but they all hide away so we can look the real deal.

[petersjoy]

Hi all,

We are wanting to fit shore power to our little Norman. Usage will only be for a DAB radio and charging phones when moored up overnight.

What we want to do is purchase one of these wall sockets and mount it to the external part of the cabin bulkhead somewhere near the helm position. Then inside the cabin (just the other side of the bulkhead) wire in one of the extension leads with a built in circuit breaker through the bulkhead and into the socket

The question is, is it safe and will there be any issue with a boat safety test?

Also if it will work and be ok is it the 32A version we will need.

Steve & Deb

thats almost exactly the set up i've got.

Socket at the back wired to the 3 way unit in the cockpit. one with with a timer plugged in for the immersion heater, one with an extension to galley for fridge etc, one free in cockpit to plug anything else in. Been like that for the last 6years no problem.

[BroadScot]

As in all good electrical practice, please ensure if doing the wiring and connecting yourself, ensure ALL the screw terminals are really tight, as metric cables, solid or flex can loosen with the vibration of a cruiser.

 

Iain.

[ranworthbreeze]

I agree with Iain regarding the tightness of the screw terminals and in my mind standard twin & earth should not be used, use 2.5mm2 3 core stranded cable for your ring main run.

 

Regards

Alan

[Matt]

And please ensure you wear your hard hat, life jacket, fluorescent, still toe caps and when appropriate SUN CREAM when climbing off to plug in the shorepower.

You never can be too careful you know............

;-)

[Mowjo]

Iain! you should have mentioned never use solid core cable on a boat, but I'll let you off this time,

 

Alan! I believe it should be Artic cable,,

 

Geeze i'm picky today,,

 

Polly! you mean Domestic kit labeled as Marine with a few £ on the price, there are a few specialist kits out there but providing the right cables, consumer unit, RCD and MCBs and installed properly they are as safe as any, most problems are caused by people that think they know what they are doing and with anything these people are the most dangerous, when ever I buy a boat I check everything, because you never know what a previous owner has done, like on my last boat! three bits of cable joined together with electrical tape, all on the 240v circuit,

 

Frank,,,

[BroadScot]

Frank,

 

Having wired a racecourse stand in MICC/Pyro, (I still get nightmares making off the ends lol) I am brain dead with solid drawn cables If you read my remarks O^O¬ I did say both flex and solid  Agree completely, flexible for boats, so the cables wont break.

 

Iain.

[Mowjo]

Iain!  your not getting off that easily, you said "solid or flex can loosen with the vibration of a cruiser. now if you had just said loosen with vibration I would have let you off, but you didn't so I win,,   and as you didn't say never use solid core cable on a boat/cruiser I win twice,,

 

Seriously though! anyone who reads this who has the slightest doub't about electrics 240v or 12v, DON'T do it, 240v can kill you if you get it wrong and 12v can seriously injure you, and don't forget all elecrics are one of the main causes of fires,

 

There you go, told Iain off and did my bit for the safety of the community, another bit nothing to do with this thread but on a safety issue, when on your boat Varnishing or using Glue, always make sure you have plenty of ventilation! on Sunday I forgot that and got so high I thought I was back in the 70's

 

Frank,,,

[BroadScot]

Iain!  your not getting off that easily, you said "solid or flex can loosen with the vibration of a cruiser. now if you had just said loosen with vibration I would have let you off, but you didn't so I win,,   and as you didn't say never use solid core cable on a boat/cruiser I win twice,,

 

Seriously though! anyone who reads this who has the slightest doub't about electrics 240v or 12v, DON'T do it, 240v can kill you if you get it wrong and 12v can seriously injure you, and don't forget all elecrics are one of the main causes of fires,

 

There you go, told Iain off and did my bit for the safety of the community, another bit nothing to do with this thread but on a safety issue, when on your boat Varnishing or using Glue, always make sure you have plenty of ventilation! on Sunday I forgot that and got so high I thought I was back in the 70's

 

Frank,,,

That will be the 1870's Frank? Sorry matey I coodny resist  . Back to be serious, yes you are 110% correct Frank regarding electricity. As Alan (R.Breeze) would know, when you were serving your apprenticeship, do not play about with electricity, it can and WILL kill you. I have a 440volt scar on my thumb from a busbar chamber, so knows how close to not typying this little ditty I nearly was then. IF in doubt better a dear lecky bill than funeral costs.

 

 

Iain.

[Mowjo]

Iain! some mornings it feel like I was born in 1870, trouble is my brain still thinks it's 21, it's terrible when I start a job then think I'm just getting too old for all this, I'll just keep going until my brain catches up though,, I learnt my lesson with 12v when I arched a spanner, I never knew spanners could fly until I saw the blood and had the stitches in my chin,

 

Frank,,,

[ranworthbreeze]

I am afraid that the dangers of electrical installation are not only limited to amateures many tradesmen can & do get it wrong.

 

A friend of mine had a bathroom converted to a wetroom, the registered & approved electrician had a muppet moment and connected the bathroom lighting onto a 45 amp breaker and the shower onto a 6 amp breaker, the fault was only discovered when the shower kept tripping the wrong breaker. 

 

I had to replace a three phase 100 amp breaker in a board because it had burnt out on one of the phase connections where it went into the boards busbars, when fitted the connection had not been opened enough for the busbar to go into the connect, so when all three connections had been tightened on that phase the busbar was only touching the connection.

 

People do not realise the dangers of low voltage especially DC.

We have a number of ex GPO engineers on the forum who know of the dangers of having any tools (let alone spanners) anywhere near battery banks or even single batteries for that matter.  

 

Regards

Alan

[Mowjo]

Mmm! lost count of the times I've heard "well it's only 12v" and I don't think people also realise that if your boat catches fire and it's proven to be down to badly installed 12v by the owner it can invalidate your insurance, I presume it would be the same for 240v installations as well,,

 

Frank,,,

[Guest]

.....People do not realise the dangers of low voltage especially DC.

We have a number of ex GPO engineers on the forum who know of the dangers of having any tools (let alone spanners) anywhere near battery banks or even single batteries for that matter. ..

 

Quite true Alan, whilst one can safely touch 12 volts DC with bare hands, it can generate massive amounts of heat if suddenly shorted with metal objects like tools.

 

I searched google for any graphic images of melted spanners, but found this little story instead:

 

http://features.boats.com/boat-content/2011/01/a-short-story-about-battery-shorts/

[Oddfellow]

There have been enough warnings already about playing with electrics if you don't have the knowlegde and skill.

 

Simply, don't do it. Get someone else in.

 

The BSS implications have already been mentioned and should be paid attention to.

 

What's not been mentioned is that the vast majority of shorepower posts are 16amp. A 32amp connector is larger than a 16amp connector and phsically won't fit.

 

Also, there is little sense in running a ring main in such a small boat. A ring main using 2.5mm cores is rated at 32amp. A radial main using the same size cable is 16amp. Given that your incommer is just 16amps, you won't be able to draw 32amps anyway.

[Guest]

......Also, there is little sense in running a ring main in such a small boat. A ring main using 2.5mm cores is rated at 32amp. A radial main using the same size cable is 16amp. Given that your incommer is just 16amps, you won't be able to draw 32amps anyway.

 

The ring does give other advantages though, even when backed with a 16 amp breaker.

 

As the cabling to each socket is loop in loop out, each socket doesn't need an exclusive cable run back to the consumer unit.

 

So you can it many more sockets, with far less cable, and you only have two ends to terminate back at the ring main MCB, rather than a great wodge of them.