What do you think?

[JennyMorgan]

I have to admit that I often think that both antisocial emissions and noise should be controlled, the byelaws are there. If someone wants two engines then so long as they are reasonably quiet and don't pump out excessive fumes then where is the problem? In reality I suspect that most boats would pass with flying colours but there are one or two that wouldn't. My house is about 100m back from the water's edge and the main navigation channel is about 200m further away, yet, even with all my windows closed, there are one or two big boats that I can clearly hear!

[Baitrunner]

Hmm what a great idea - not!

I wonder if they have looked at the number of boats with twin engines and what would hapoen if they took their business elsewhere.

I would also suggest many of these boats being private and sea going are mainly used for 1-2 nights on the broads so probably don't add to the rubbish problem!

Most will also be on the southern rivers so maybe busineses will suffer as a result.

The problems with bridges and locks not working is causing a few people I know to look elsewhere.

It's all a bit like the car tax arguments.

A huge car driven 1000 miles a year causes less damage than a small car doing 10000 miles a year. Yet in general the larger car will pay more road tax (unless you have my 3.0 Audi).

The point is using the biat once or 100 times a year we all want the amenities to be available just like the roads.

Most of these boats already pay more because of their size.

What about boats with generators?

They need to forget this idea.

[dnks34]

its simple baitrunner, £150 a year generator levy there Job done anything else

[Baitrunner]

All I will say is if you drive those boats out that already pay high tolls and don't use the facilities as much be prepared for everyone else's tolls to increase.

Variety is the spice of life as they say. Sail, cruisers, day boats gin palaces. They are all welcome in my book and its whatever type of boat you fancy. Do these twin engine boats really cause more damage?

I guess we now have to ban any car capable of more then 70mph and send them all back to Germany on the autobahns

[dnks34]

No not at all Im not suggesting they should be driven out i just dont think paying a bit more on the Toll would make much difference to those at the very top end of the scale, for example two boats both 37ft by 12, one 650hp the other 50hp they both take up exactly the space in the water but there are very clear differences, the 650hp could go elsewhere via sea, the 50hp probably cant, the 50hp is potentially more fuel efficient and less of a burden on the planet etc etc etc. The owners of these boats must have deep pockets make em pay I say

[dnks34]

Morningswan, i would think mooring your boat on the south coast is going to cost you more than the broads just for starters, it might cost you more in fuel to get there, i dont think the BA will want a mass exodus of boats to other areas as thats clearly no good for the local economy and im not anti big powerful boats by any means, if i had that kind of cash i would certainly have one and Id probably be feeling pretty happy with the current cost of the toll for it also!

[Baitrunner]

Not deep pockets. We just work very hard and spend our money on things we like.

As you say we have the capability to go elsewhere via the sea. So does that mean I have to pay more to have my boat near my home and use waters in my home county?

I would also suggest that unless I go to sea I hardly use any diesel at all compared to some of the holiday tales I read on the forum. Even the illustrious robin in his report on the leccy boat used a lot more than I would pootling around with my hundreds of horses.

So is it an engine tax, an environment tax or just a tax on people who work hard pay taxes and tolls but just like a different style of boat with bigger engines?

You may guess what type of boat I have, but I am happy for all sorts to have access to the broads whatever their boat type and hope they don't implement such ridiculous ideas and they keep a "fair" toll system in place

[JennyMorgan]

Paul, I appreciate your honesty over exhaust emissions. It is a problem, especially on a windless day when the fumes just lay on the water, ready to envelope those of us in kayaks for example. The realisation is there, about time that the industry scratched its collective head and came up with suitable modifications for inland waterways cruising. Certainly not just a Broads issue. 

[dnks34]

I cant really answer that one Baitrunner as Im not sure how I would word it if it were up to me to implement any change, i just think the current toll structure is probably at bit high at the bottom and low at the top and I hope if any changes are made they are well thought out rather than just taking the easy option and picking off the gin palaces.

[Baitrunner]

There are also plenty of East Coast marinas that arent any more expensive.

Rnsyc £150/m. Vs. WRC £215/m

Rnsyc will also save my annual tolls and assuming I can get through the lock or bridges at Yarmouth would be cheaper to just pay a visitors toll.

Problem is I love it where I am. But sometimes love just costs too much

[dnks34]

i bet its a lot of fun all the same

[Wehlau]

dnks34

It sure is though I chickened out at 3500rpm and 22knots, (red lined at 4000rpm but the motors at 20 yrs old and one has to have sympathy for them)

If I did that up the Bure I suspect there would be complaints from more than the nesting mallards and kayakers, though have been aboard at 18knots on a river trial, all legal of course in a designated area.

Paul

i watched three big private boats playing on Breydon Monday,looked like they were having good fun running flat out.apparently they can cross from yarmouth to the Berney in just six minutes.as for speeding up the Bure it's not just the mallards you need to watch out for,for some reason there is a total disregard for the speed limit here at yarmouth.over taking boats doing six mile per hour seems to be a sport here and as for the wash that's just a joke.i have cctv on my yard now for security but one camara covers the river so I am reporting the reg numbers to the broads beat of all the boats that speed private and hire craft alike.

[smellyloo]

Blimey as far as I can see there is no suggestion that large twin engined boats are going to be banned from the Broads ..... you will still be able to choose the type of boat that suits you.

 

It's just that the boat toll/tax could be tweeked to factor in number /size of engines in addition to the existing criteria.

 

If well thought out and implemented it could result in a reduction in toll for smaller, less powerful craft.

 

It would be foolish to raise the toll for the larger twin engined boat excessively thus resulting in the loss of revenue when they chuff off elsewhere.

[MauriceMynah]

Now this thread has evolved into "best way to organise the tolls" there is a distinct danger that it could further evolve towards a "Don't pick on my boat, look at your own!" line of chat. PLEASE don't let that happen!!!

Having said that, I'm going to be a bit contentious and stick MY little oar in.

Personally I would start with the "all being equal" side and say that tolls should be based on the square meterage of the craft.

Next (sorry Clive/Andy) I'd keep the loading for hire/commercial craft, though not necessarily at the same level.

Now, the square meterage should be calculated thus...

The footprint of the boat plus the square meterage of the propulsion unit, so the larger the engine, the more you pay. Sailies (who by their very nature get in everybody's  way) also pay this 'propulsion unit levy'

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tee hee.    

[JennyMorgan]

I often wonder why people, who want to be based on the Broads and cruise the Broads, buy boats that are patently unsuited to that purpose.Granted that the extreme comfort offered by a gin palace has its attractions but it's not for me. Okay. so if I were a tad younger I could be tempted by one or two of the 'trawler' yachts on offer. There is a beauty moored at the Oulton Broad Yacht Station right now, very tasty but as a Broads boat, no, it won't fit under Beccles Bridge, wouldn't be able to get to The Locks. 

 

When one considers that the Southern Rivers are still 'trading' rivers and, with the exception of the Chet, have all been used by coastal trading vessels then it makes little sense to want to ban a boat just because it is big when, compared with a coaster, it is actually quite small!

 

I've had 'big boats', believe me, small boats are far more fun!

[MauriceMynah]

When I first started coming to the broads there were speed boats on and around Barton, and on the Bure. It was 'people' who changed the rules and made those boats 'unsuitable'. In reality the only boat that is unsuited to the broads is one that physically cannot get there.

If I bought a top of the range seagoing gin palace and had it transported to Hickling Broad because that was the only place I wanted to be, for as long as I liked the boat and it's position, for me, it would be ideally suited to the broads. If I bought a kayak and hated it because it was small cold and wet, it would be totally unsuited to the broads.

The broads don't change, peoples requirements do, and it is those requirements that determine what is and what is not suitable.

If it were the shape and style of the waterway that determined what was suitable, it would not be totally unreasonable to suggest that a vessel incapable of navigating those waters without zig-zagging may not be the most suitable craft!

 

I hasten to add, that is not my belief, but then I'm not the one who is to say what is and what is not suitable.

[JennyMorgan]

 

I hasten to add, that is not my belief, but then I'm not the one who is to say what is and what is not suitable.

Maybe not, but you are entitled to an opinion!

[ranworthbreeze]

Lets face it everyones pride and joy is their boat (every boat is bought with compromises, be it to high, to low, under powered, over powered, to little bearths or to many).

 

I have never come across the perfect boat.

Be it from a small launch to the largest boat on the Broads (or the canals for that matter), We all want a boat that we can see over the reeds but is low enough to get under Yarmouth most of the time. I know we can not get under Wroxham, Potter Heigham or Ludham bridges for that matter, but you can always hire a day boat if you want that boating fix. 

 

Regards

Alan

[LondonRascal]

When one looks in to the cost of owning a boat one of the smallest outgoings is the river tolls. 

 

While it would be helpful be it to the owners of a traditional wooden boat owners to be exempt from payment of tolls (much the same as classic cars made prior to January 1st 1975 being exempt from road tax) I think there could be more helpful financial incentives.

 

For example the Broads Authority perhaps the National Lottery heritage funding from the E.U (you name it) could come together and owners of historically important craft – be it a Wherry or a private boat could apply for a ‘restoration grant’.  This would help keep these important boats on the water for longer when vastly expensive large scale work is required to keep them afloat – better than ending up on the hard rotting waiting for someone who may come along to rescue them.

 

Perhaps even those who offer moorings to classic boats could offer rebate packages on fees if owners agreed for minimum term contracts or other binding agreements such as the age of the boat, the construction materials and so on. 

 

It is a little like steam trains where people of my father’s generation are keen to keep them in running order as a direct living example of the past – and people of my generation also like to see diesel traction being preserved – can you imagine when all the 125 HST’s are retired a couple of sets not being kept by preservation groups would be outrageous because of them impact on the British Rail system.

 

So it is (to my mind) not just wooden boats that need to be considered as valuable in the future but also some of the classic fibre glass designs – which are the rivers equivalent of diesel locomotives.  Not that old but without having been produced would not have lead on to what we now have.

[dnks34]

Ive got a 20 odd year old plastic tub thats got a few leaky windows and in need of a good cut and polish....please please please can I have a restoration grant

[JennyMorgan]

100 year old boats perhaps, not that many around but probably enough to be worthwhile.  Only 60 years to go on my Drascombe!

[BroadAmbition]

And only 50 years to go with 'B.A'

 

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Not so much 'What do you think' but what I know - is the tolls charged for tenders, dinghys be they sailing, rowing, or powered are outrageously too high.

 

'B.A' toll is for this year a shade over £400 or £8 a week - that's ok as long as they don't keep increasing it  above the rate of inflation

 

The toll for our tender which can be rowed, powered (Outboard) or sailed - (well it is theoretically possible if one actually knows how to sail the damn thing)

is £94:00    if one scales up the dinghy to the size of 'B.A' then the dinghy toll would be £1'222:00    

This level of toll for the dinghy/tender is way out of proportion for its size and impact it has on the system and imho need addressing.

 

 

Griff

[dnks34]

Spot on Griff I think exactly the same way, its all out of proportion.

[MauriceMynah]

I agree too Griff, but it would be tricky to come up with a "tender toll" that wouldn't be open to abuse.

[dnks34]

But why would for example a £40 toll be any more open to abuse than a £90 toll!!