Norwich Yacht Station

[NorfolkNog]

Good point Peter. I suppose the person to confirm or otherwise would be the OP 

[JennyMorgan]

Apparently the BA has seized a sunken boat at the YS called Taurus. I've just checked on Craig's List and she is who Howard suggested that she is!

http://www.broads.org.uk/wiki/index.php5?title=Boat_Photograph&photo=616c_1594&style=Vsta&returnpath=Boat_Details&classname=Vesta_of_E.C.Landamore_(unofficial_name)

By 2012 she was beginning to look a little tender, poor old girl.

http://www.broads.org.uk/wiki/index.php5?title=Boat_Photograph&photo=616c_1594a&style=Vsta&returnpath=Boat_Details&classname=Vesta_of_E.C.Landamore_(unofficial_name)

[MBA Marine]

BA seize this one and I presume will remove it, but what about the boat that I think is/was 'Chatterbox' at ABC Wharf, the sunken boat near the river garden pub and the one that sunk about 15 mins from Thorpe on the left heading to Brundall will they please do something with these!?

[JennyMorgan]

At about £5k per wreck I suspect that they prioritise boats sunk in the main river.

[NorfolkNog]

Ah, thanks Peter so that is the one. Shame, she would have been a fine looking craft back in the day. As you say they soon go downhill if neglected. Very sad.

[MBA Marine]

10 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

At about £5k per wreck I suspect that they prioritise boats sunk in the main river.

3 out of the 4 i mention are in the main river and the 4th between the thorpe bridges, two of the four have been down some years.

maybe they need to be sunk and abandoned on public mooring for BA to care

[NorfolkNog]

I think this is Chatterbox, last time I saw her was at the Waterfront, I think she had sunk several times. The other one is the Thorpe one Mark mentioned??? Not sure about the others.

[JennyMorgan]

14 minutes ago, MBA Marine said:

3 out of the 4 i mention are in the main river and the 4th between the thorpe bridges, two of the four have been down some years.

maybe they need to be sunk and abandoned on public mooring for BA to care

Maybe the owners should deal with them. I fail to see why we,tax and toll payers, should pay to clear up other folks' messes. It really amounts to fly tipping on the grand scale.

[MBA Marine]

2 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Maybe the owners should deal with them. I fail to see why we,tax and toll payers, should pay to clear up other folks' messes. It really amounts to fly tipping on the grand scale.

Totally agree, the BA should remove the boats then bill the last registered owner, if they fail to pay then seek the money through the courts, this to me seems a fair use of the BA's money and power.

[JanetAnne]

It seems all too easy to just swim ashore and walk away with no fear of persecution or prosecution.

Peter mentioned that maybe hull condition should be part of the BSS. In most cases to get insurance on a wooden boat a full hull survey is required. If a then sunken boat was insured the bill would be picked up by the insurer.

Maybe we need some sort of ability to seize and remove such boats that are not taxed, insured and BSS certified before they head for the bottom? It'd be far cheaper to tow such craft and resolve the issues whilst its still afloat. And, if the owner is genuine such issues could be resolved and boats returned.

I hate more than most to see old woodies meet their end in such circumstances. Those that know me will also know my passion for these old boats. Poor ownership is the reason they end up this way. That poor ownership and the horror stories that follow do nothing to help the wooden boat movement in general and, in fact, can be quite damaging. People are scared of ownership of woodies because of these tales meaning many of those that remain are under threat for the future. Just last week I spent three days putting together a rescue package for another old Oulton Broad built broads cruiser in imminent danger of being broken up. In that case we succeeded - by the skin of our teeth! She is being delivered to her new owner Thursday and I will bring you all the details as soon as she is safe.

When we rescued Janet Anne she had been used as a liveaboard then stripped of everything that could be sold before being cast adrift. She floated back and forth on the tide for two days before being captured and taken to Thorpe for destruction. The BA worked very hard to get her then owner to admit liability but he repeatedly claimed he had sold her in a pub just a few days before (or something similar) and walked away despite their efforts. We, the toll payer,s footed the bill of course. (Well actually, in this case, I did when I bought her from the BA... lol)

I'm sure some of you will remember going past her sitting awaiting her fate. It would have been about 2010

 

 

[jillR]

as with the wherries in the day, wooden boats are fast running out and not often taken on for

restoration any more.

some are lucky enough to meet the likes of griff and barry but most have to hope someone

from further afield will spot them and take them for restoration like my old boat and many more.

I went as far as I could with her then had to sell due to health reasons. I hoped the work would continue

but the buyer became busy with other things and had to sell to people who will now take her to

other waters as no one here was interested.

they had her hull checked and found 2 feet of planking needed to be replaced,  showing

that it is unlikely that it was her condition that put people off.

so few in these waters are sunk and left in the scheme of things and if they find a use as a home

for a while, I for one will be pleased

 

[JennyMorgan]

Problem is, Jill, that some of the folk who seek boats out as economic homes really don't have a clue as to what is required of them as owners.

If we take Taurus as an example, the one that sank in the yacht station, the owners had probably done nothing to maintain the hull from day oner, other than a lick of paint. When I saw her her windows were ringing wet with condensation, that, as we all know, can be lethal for a wooden boat where ventilation is god. She was a lovely boat in her day, just needed a couple of thousand a year being spent on her, don't expect the sellers told the new owners that. I feel quite sorry for those innocents afloat but boating is not cheap, at least not on the Broads. I'm quite sure that the imposition of both insurance and the BSS  was intended to price these old boats off the waterways. In the meantime people who have an old, end of life boat, are more than happy to pass their liability onto someone else. 

[JennyMorgan]

Regarding insurance, I might be wrong but isn't the requirement just for third party? Is a survey then needed? 

[jillR]

28 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Problem is, Jill, that some of the folk who seek boats out as economic homes really don't have a clue as to what is required of them as owners.

I agree JM but many none residential boats have the same fate.

I have found some truly  terrible repairs done on none residential boats.

wooky witch had plastic laundry line between her planks for cauking

one boat owner thought it a good idea to tar the whole of his hull and decks,

summer was fun for him when it came.

concrete in the bilges of a wooden boat etc etc

[jillR]

if the broads authority turn around as the BW did and allow a reasonable amount of residential

moorings without putting impossible conditions on the yard owners then you may see less of this

as the residential boat owner will then have access to power, help and advice to repair. 

[jillR]

im not familiar with fiberglass as its something I haven't dealt with.

what happens when a fiberglass boat dies ?

are they recycleable ? 

im sure they are not burnable.

[TheQ]

Actually Fibreglass boats burn very well, unfortunately with toxic smoke, and leaving a pile of glass fibres and other bits that don't burn. they aren't economically recycleable and are shredded for landfill..

[Guest]

7 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

........ I'm quite sure that the imposition of both insurance and the BSS  was intended to price these old boats off the waterways........

......Whereas I think most people would agree that the "imposition" of insurance and the BSS was purely to protect other boat owners from incidents with badly maintained craft. I'm quite relieved that there is legislation in place to prevent craft with lethal gas, electrical and fuel installations from mooring near me.

The BA enforced the BSS several years after it was introduced by most other inland waterway authorities.

If it hadn't been introduced, how many more boats like the one in this photo (also at Norwich at the time), and the sunken vessel at the yacht station would there be on the system ?

As for the minimum requirement for third party insurance for powered vessels, surely the benefit of that is to protect boat owners from unrecoverable expenses caused by uninsured boat users ?

I apologise for so frequently disagreeing with you Peter, but you often have such an obtuse way of looking at things, (IMHO).

[LizG]

I thought Taurus had the look of a Landamore, confirmed on Craig's site as a Vesta. Great shame ......... but I own a woodie and it ain't easy!

[JennyMorgan]

Strowager, we are not a million miles apart on this one. In principle I welcomed the legislation but remember that I was on the inside back then & did hear conversations from on high. It is both a shame and a fact that legislation is used for purposes other than for what was intended, Regretfully, and it is a fact, small motor boat numbers have markedly dropped on the Broads since the legislation was introduced. Regretfully not everyone has a comfortable pension or income to support their boating, or BA demands..

[Springsong]

This is so sad because as far as I am aware this was the last surviving Vesta or Vestella on the Broads. There is one up at Wayford onshore in a very poor state and Carenda a truly stunning estuary cruiser converted by Leslie Landamore a good while ago.

http://www.broads.org.uk/wiki/index.php5?title=Boat_Details&BoatId=2719&BoatHistory=16942

http://www.broads.org.uk/wiki/index.php5?title=Boat_Details&BoatId=2603&BoatHistory=3441

[Vaughan]

The photo by Norfolk Nog on page 1 of this thread is a Landamore Vestella - the 6 berth version of the Vesta. (and looking well on it, for such an old boat).

The photo here by Strowager is a Juliette class from Martham Development Co, one of their later builds.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, JennyMorgan said:

Strowager, we are not a million miles apart on this one. In principle I welcomed the legislation but remember that I was on the inside back then & did hear conversations from on high. It is both a shame and a fact that legislation is used for purposes other than for what was intended, Regretfully, and it is a fact, small motor boat numbers have markedly dropped on the Broads since the legislation was introduced. Regretfully not everyone has a comfortable pension or income to support their boating, or BA demands..

"Everyone" should surely try to live within their means Peter ?

A "comfortable" pension is a very arbitrary conception.

I have nowhere near enough income to be able to maintain a large old woodie, so I content myself with a small tupperware boat, which I can afford to DIY maintain to a safe standard.

Your 2k per annum woodie maintenance estimate is quite accurate I would say, an annual overhead I could never  justify or afford.

You were absolutely right too when you said that some people take on wooden craft with no idea of the costs and skill involved in keeping them afloat, let alone in good condition.

[JennyMorgan]

3 hours ago, Strowager said:

"Everyone" should surely try to live within their means Peter ?

Which is probably why so many small motor cruisers have gone from the Broads. In my own case, on my Drascombe, I pay pretty much the same insurance as I do my toll. Effectively the insurance requirement would have doubled my running costs overnight if I were not already paying. It goes back to the comparison of tolls paid on a small runabout and a large motorboat, it just doesn't stack up. I do feel sorry for those who can't afford to go boating & feel that the BA, and the industry as a whole, do little to encourage low income boating. 

[Vaughan]

Actually, Norfolk Nog's photo is a Vesta not a Vestella, but it is one of the very early ones with portholes in the forepart, which is what confused me.

In which case this is a very old boat, maybe built before the war.