Five Star Rating

[Wench]

Stars mean nothing in the food industry in reality , they are nothing more than a snapshot in time of there visit . personnel hygiene is far more important then stars on a door .

People come back for healthy good food that they enjoyed .

[JamesLV]

24 minutes ago, Wench said:

Stars mean nothing in the food industry in reality , they are nothing more than a snapshot in time of there visit . personnel hygiene is far more important then stars on a door .

People come back for healthy good food that they enjoyed .

Much like an MOT on a car, it just means it was in a passable condition at the time of test, which is why the likes of cabs etc have to go for much more frequent tests.

there are some fairly stupid loopholes in the MOT though, for instance, if your windscreen wipers don't work it's a fail, however, if you remove the windscreen, they don't need to, and you'll get a pass!

[Chelsea14Ian]

Sorry but how many work in the business. Scores on the doors is not perfect,but until something else comes along it has an important place.I can walk into a kitchen  and have a good idea if it's ran correctly. The scores are done on a number of things how food is stored/kept cooked and recorded. As chef/manger you don't know when an inspection will take place. I have said many  times before yo gain at least 4 stars is not hard. I agree washing of hands is very important,every where I have worked will treat it with the up most care,so to is plate pots and pans washing.In fact water temperature will be tested to insure the correct temperature. 

[JamesLV]

Whilst not any more, I spent a few years when I was younger running pub Kitchens, and my parents run a wedding venue, my step mother being an event caterer, so I do have some understanding of the rules, day dots, blue and pink liquids etc, though my BFH (if that's still a thing?) is well out of date these days 

[Bound2Please]

21 minutes ago, Chelsea14Ian said:

The scores are done on a number of things how food is stored/kept cooked and recorded. As chef/manger you don't know when an inspection will take place.

But its still only applicable to the day of the visit, a lot can happen on the following day, that could make 5 stars become no stars over night.

Do people on here that only go for 5 stars, eat from pub bbq's in the pub garden? How could that bbq ever get a 5 star as it has no building to get a star for and no hot n cold running water

Charlie

[Malanka]

Forgive me however having consumed stuff all over the planet makes me an experienced consumer. Undoubtedly working in the industry has one insight, however it's not the only one. Professional interest aside good food tastes great and is served with style and panache. 

I have been all over the world and the best food anywhere ever was street food on an Indian train. No stars there , just good cooks cooking. 

 

M

[Chelsea14Ian]

I don't do bbqs.Believe me its easy to spot if a kitchen is ran properly. If in doubt  inspectors will return.As a Chef I aim to provide you the customers with safe well cooked tastie food and expect  staff that work with or for me to do the same.Therefore somewhere that only have 3 or less stars need to get there act together. I therefore  will not eat anywhere with 3 or less stars

[MauriceMynah]

Not arguing with you Ian. That's your choice. You do as you see fit. HOWEVER, I will happily eat anywhere with or without stars. That is my choice to which I am just as entitled.

Where it would seem we disagree is publicly damning an eatery just because of it's star rating. I would not give negative publicity to a place on the basis of someone else's say so whoever that someone else was. If a place has a reputation for food poisoning, I would probably avoid it. If it has the reputation of good food and good service, I don't give a stuff about the stars.

And yes, I too have been in the trade.

[Bound2Please]

If we go back a decade or so, how did all these only 3 - 5 star eating people get on with no stars on the doors?.... I for one still ate food out just like now. I have had food poisoning twice in my life, once was from a cafe in Gt Yarmouth, no stars on the doors then. Clean food looked and tasted good. The other in a five star hotel not food stars but hotel AA etc 5 star again food looked and tasted good.

I have eaten many times over the years from greasy spoon cafes, that for want of a better word looked past there sell by date. good food served tasty good value NO FOOD POISONING ive also eaten from many a burger van no stars etc no problems.

In New York had great street dogs from vendors that were wearing mittens to keep warm, as it was minus 10 degrees fantastic hot dogs the best ive ever tasted no stars no paper work as to where it all came from ..

So food hygiene star ratings are in my opinion a load of old bull to keep boys in a job that really isnt there. The good old HEALTH INSPECTORS had the power to shut establishments that were unhealthy we should go back to that system.

Yes I too have been in the pub/food trade, I can tell you I have seen cellars recently that should have had the pub shut down, yet have 5 stars for food hygiene on the doors.

End of rant

[Chelsea14Ian]

I do agree the up keep is just as important for beer and drink and should be treated  the same.The point I am trying to get across  is care for staff and customers, that's what it's about. Much of my time is spent doing so and I expect others to do the same.The trade I believe is heading in the right direction overall 

[littlesprite]

The star rating is a matter of choice, if you want to take notice you can, if you don't you're free to ignore it, surely it's better to have that choice than no choice at all.

[MauriceMynah]

Right, I think I understand where you're coming from Ian, and I rather think that Martin (littleSprite) has nailed it.

I am happy to see the star system as a "good practice guide" in the same way we have the "good beer guide". Unlike the camra guide, the people who run the "good practice guide" do have the authority to close a place down if the standards are low to the point of danger. I have no problem with that either. Again unlike camera, the good practice guide applies to ALL providers of food. Again, I have no problem there either.

So basically, the only point of contention between us is the weight we give the stars awarded, and our personal choice as to where we would and would not eat based on those stars.

I'm sure in our histories in the trade, we have both seen disgusting things going on, real toe curlers, and I'm equally sure that we are both glad to see such practices outlawed, but I'm reminded of the fact that it's far from good to keep ourselves in too sterile an environment. Hell, I'm even tempted to shout "Eat at "1"s"  if just to wind you up just a tiny bit. 

[Guest ExMemberKingFisher]

53 minutes ago, littlesprite said:

The star rating is a matter of choice, if you want to take notice you can, if you don't you're free to ignore it, surely it's better to have that choice than no choice at all.

Martin makes a very good point, to which I would add that I would prefer it if the rating had to be displayed at the point of entry to the premises. Those not interested in the ratings will just walk on in still, those who do take an interest in the ratings will know immediately the rating without having to search around on apps, or websites etc.

[Chelsea14Ian]

I have said many times I would like scores displayed by law..At present  you don't have to.

[MauriceMynah]

How about a compromise? If the rating is displayed, it should be at all public entrances. Customers can then read into "non displaying" what they will.

The only reason I suggest this is my reluctance to see more laws governing us. We have too many as it is.

Lets look at a possible situation (and I use a mythical eatery here) I just purchased an eatery. it had one star. I don't want to close it whilst I upgrade it,but have not yet had time to address all the issues. Would I have to display the previous owners rating? Would I have to close whilst I await the new assessment? Do call them in each time I make an improvement?

No, making "laws" about things just makes money for lawyers. It does not necessarily improve the situation for the business or the consumer.

[Guest ExMemberKingFisher]

17 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

How about a compromise? If the rating is displayed, it should be at all public entrances. Customers can then read into "non displaying" what they will.

The only reason I suggest this is my reluctance to see more laws governing us. We have too many as it is.

Lets look at a possible situation (and I use a mythical eatery here) I just purchased an eatery. it had one star. I don't want to close it whilst I upgrade it,but have not yet had time to address all the issues. Would I have to display the previous owners rating? Would I have to close whilst I await the new assessment? Do call them in each time I make an improvement?

No, making "laws" about things just makes money for lawyers. It does not necessarily improve the situation for the business or the consumer.

If you were to purchase an eatery with a good reputation then there wouldn't be a problem with displaying the previous good rating, however if you were to purchase an eatery with one star, then I would have thought the first thing you would do is change the name, or even type of food being sold to disassociate your self from the previous business and then remove the old rating and put up a sign saying under new ownership, awaiting hygiene inspection rating. Thus making it plain your are not part of the old business, whilst at the same time explaining why you are not able to display a current rating.

[MauriceMynah]

Sorry K.T. it is the displaying BY LAW I was opposing. The example I gave was just meant to be that, an example.

1 minute ago, KingfishersTime said:

or even type of food being sold to disassociate your self from the previous business

Tricky if I'd just bought a "Fish and Chip" shop.

 

2 minutes ago, KingfishersTime said:

remove the old rating and put up a sign saying under new ownership, awaiting hygiene inspection rating.

Do you remember the old ruse in car windscreens "Tax applied for"?

 

3 minutes ago, KingfishersTime said:

If you were to purchase an eatery with a good reputation then there wouldn't be a problem with displaying the previous good rating,

However bad I was !

 

Honest K.T., I'm not trying to tear your post to shreds, but it's why I finally said "

29 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

No, making "laws" about things just makes money for lawyers.

 

[Guest ExMemberKingFisher]

2 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

Sorry K.T. it is the displaying BY LAW I was opposing. The example I gave was just meant to be that, an example.

Tricky if I'd just bought a "Fish and Chip" shop.

 

Do you remember the old ruse in car windscreens "Tax applied for"?

 

However bad I was !

 

Honest K.T., I'm not trying to tear your post to shreds, but it's why I finally said "

 

Would you want to return to the days of no MOT? Whilst there are still a few idiots out there who drive around with no MOT, and whilst I also accept that cars can become a fail the day after an MOT, the roads are generally far safer because of the MOT.

The food hygiene inspections are now here to stay and I for one am glad they are. Making the display of the sign mandatory would make it very easy for the consumer to decide. For various reasons businesses already have to display various bits of paperwork. Gaming license for fruit machines, PPL license for playing music, licensee details for licensed premises, I believe, but could be wrong, public liability insurance details. etc. Adding one more to the list and specifying it's location is hardly onerous. Most restaurants display the menu either at the door or by the road side. Why not add the hygiene rating to that display?

 

[smellyloo]

I think the main issue we face is that with a decline in manufacturing we have to find jobs for those displaced people.

Encouraging everyone to seek a degree gave us 3 years grace, whilst they were having a good time, but then we got a whole raft of ology graduates looking for meaningful employment.

Witness the explosion of non jobs .... inspectors, planners etc etc. Now they have to justify their existence by convincing the gullible public that their job is essential.

The star rating system is deeply flawed. If an establishment is deemed unfit to serve food it should be closed down pending re examination if not why muddy the waters with a meaningless system which only serves to fuel the ever growing paranoia that our world is being consumed by dirty germs  entering every orrifise.

 

[Bound2Please]

Just now, KingfishersTime said:

The food hygiene inspections are now here to stay and I for one am glad they are

The old health inspectors done a great job, why keep making jobs for the boys??????

 

1 minute ago, KingfishersTime said:

Gaming license for fruit machines

This isnt new like the stars

 

2 minutes ago, KingfishersTime said:

licensee details for licensed premises

Again not new but the stars are, and dont take into consideration the cellar which is as important if not more so than the kitchens.

Charlie

[Guest ExMemberKingFisher]

Just now, Bound2Please said:

The old health inspectors done a great job, why keep making jobs for the boys??????

 

This isnt new like the stars

 

Again not new but the stars are, and dont take into consideration the cellar which is as important if not more so than the kitchens.

Charlie

It is a food hygiene rating, not a drink or cellar hygiene rating, but perhaps you are correct, the scheme should be extended?

[Bound2Please]

8 minutes ago, KingfishersTime said:

It is a food hygiene rating, not a drink or cellar hygiene rating, but perhaps you are correct, the scheme should be extended?

No just bring back the good old Health Inspectors they did both, didnt need useless stars. Just shut an establishment down if unfit kitchen or cellar. No faffing about with stars, everyone knew where stood open all ok shut was being brought up to standard. What in hells name is wrong with that system? No stupid stars so straight forward. Open or Closed

Charlie

[MauriceMynah]

Time Gentlemen Please. ( sorry, couldn't resist that one)

I think we will have to agree to differ. But will one of out tech team please explain to me why Kingfishers Time's quoted posts only tell half the story?

[Hockham Admiral]

I rather like going into pubs and I always take an interest in what the food looks like when I see it served. If it looks good and I'm hungry then I will buy.

Here in Welcombe, Devon, on holiday, we've had a few excellent meals in the Old Smithy but I've yet to see a rating sign as we go in via the back door near the loos.

Still, it's a funny old world and we can each make our own choices in life, can't we?   

[Guest ExMemberKingFisher]

Last post on the subject. Pass or fail, open or closed, doesn't give any incentive to improve the hygiene. I see a rating of 1 as a pass but with room for massive improvement, and being very close to being closed down. I see 4 or 5 as an establishment that has taken the time and effort to be as hygienic as they can, and have systems in place to ensure it stays that way.

I think we all agree it's about choice and by having the ratings displayed by the door doesn't stop anyone from exercising their right to go into a one star establishment if they so wish, that is still their choice and no one is saying it shouldn't be. However I do honestly feel that being forced to display a one star by the door may shame an establishment into trying harder at it's next review, if it cannot just brush the rating under the carpet till the next review.

Please remember that we are not all tech savvy and not everyone will look at scores on the doors, or local authority websites before going out to eat. Personally I do and will not eat at an establishment that has a low score, that is my choice. However what about Granddad Bob, or Auntie Doris, who doesn't have a smart phone, or computer. Why shouldn't they be given the information to make an informed choice if they so wish? Rating displayed at the point of entry is fool proof for young and old.

I'm going to go off at a tangent now, but one of the things that really annoys me about the way society is moving is that we are moving to a model where if you are not tech savvy, you are at a disadvantage, quite often financially. I'm thinking of older drivers and insurance comparison websites or the elderly and trying to find the best phone or energy deal etc.

Maurice, your point about my quotes, I think it doesn't copy every thing when people have interspersed their quote of mine, with their comments, breaking it up into several sections. It then only seems to copy some of the quote. I think? You can also delete part of a quote to reply to a pertinent point rather than reposting what could be a rather long post.