Portable Fuel Tanks Illegal?

[brandenjg]

This may be a question for Wildfuzz.

Hello all, I've just been to top up the portable fuel tank ready for a trip on the boat tomorrow and I was strongly advised at the pump that it's actually illegal to fill up my fuel tank and carry it in the car without specific signage on the car to indicate I'm carrying a large quantity of fuel. 

My question is is the info correct. I have noticed the signs on the pumps that say 2x 5ltr plastic Jerry or 1x 10ltr metal tank. My tank is 12L plastic Honda fuel tank and I also have a 22L quicksilver tank. Both of which I regularly fill up at the pump.

If it is illegal I'll have to make a couple trips with 5ltr Jerry or possibly get away with it by putting my fuel tank in my pushbike trailer.

Branden

[JennyMorgan]

Being in a boating area my local Tesco's seems to be quite relaxed but I have had problems away from the water. As for the regs, the best that I can come up with is this:

http://www.lawnmowersdirect.co.uk/blog/news/petrol-cans-safe-storage/

[Viking23]

I read somewhere it is ok to fill up a fuel tank intended for an outboard, so have the fuel line ready to show them.

I read somewhere you could fill up around 24 +'litres...(citation required) in fact, tanks larger than this can be filled. BUT not all petrol stations will allow this. 

I once printed off the legislation to carry into a petrol station to show them, lost the paper and the link to where I got it from... they may not play ball and quote their own policy.

If you are walking to your boat, or a well hidden car lol... a couple of you could carry a couple of 5 or 10 litre cans with you, and pay separately. But then you run the risk of having too many portable fuel tanks on board. So does an empty tank count towards your storage? after say you have decanted them into your main fuel tanks?

There have always been restrictions on carrying spare fuel in cars, 10 years ago we had an argument with a Supermarket. The boat was moored 2 miles away, they didn't play ball. Amazing that if you go back 10 minutes later and do the same transaction... they have forgotten who you are. 

False beard works well, but they did give my wife a funny look once lol...

From their point of view, the tally roll record doesn't link the transactions, so they are in the clear. But with vehicle recognition systems, now more difficult to do, but you can always tell them you have been to the boat and back again. Which you could have done in that time.

I will try to search for my original document on line, in fact it might be linked on this site from a few years ago... but things may have changed again.

 

The clue for the petrol operator is the click every 5 litres, and slight delay in restarting again. Hiding behind open car doors and lifted boot lids can be a  clue too. Now I go into the petrol station, and just inform the operator before I fill.  

 

Richard

[Viking23]

Well spent the last 25 minutes searching the forum, and I have found a topic from nearly two years ago.

Outboard tanks are called demoutable fuel tanks.

Within the attached thread is a link to the HSE website, but not sure if this has been updated or not, so caution...

Have a look...

 

http://forum.norfolkbroadsnetwork.com/topic/7304-petrol-woes/#comment-104109

 

Now the overall responsibility lies with the fuel station...  take the HSE document with you... argue with them before you fill up, saves paying for fuel you can't take away... so what do you do with excess fuel, you can't take it into the shop... insurance issue and obvious risk to the public, you  can't leave it outside unattended as an under 16 might walk off with it...  If you are on your own... you can't leave a passenger with it, so ask for a funnel lol and ask if you can pour it back into the tank. No can't do that, you need training, a licence, PPE equipment, fire extinguishers...  a weights and measures volumetric measuring device to make sure it is the correct number of litres.  Now that would be a laugh. see what they say to that one...

Show them the HSE document again, and say you have learnt your lesson and won't do it again, and say that you were very impressed with their vigilance of looking after the customers safety, and say you will write to head office and tell them how impressed you were. 

Next time, make sure that operator isn't working that day lol. 

Most of the above said a bit tongue in cheek, petrol is dangerous and needs to be treated with respect. 

 

[grendel]

most construction gangs travel around with several 5 gallon plastic drums full of diesel for their compressors / diggers etc, these do have to be stored in a bunded area (a tray that would contain any spillage) so I wonder how / where they obtain their diesel.

[grendel]

http://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/legal/Web Documents/Legal Leaflets/Clubs/Premises/CARRIAGE AND STORAGE OF PETROL AND DIESEL.pdf

this document by the RYA seems to cover the situation

[Chelsea14Ian]

When we had our Shetland once we had problems at oulton .They said we could not fill up our tanks.

[grendel]

I think a lot of the issue is where petrol stations have a policy of only allowing a limited amount in suitable containers - regardless of what the law actually states. The RYA document above suggests larger amounts can be bought and transported, but that local policy at the petrol station may restrict you further.

[Viking23]

Like I said... talk to the fuel station operator before you start filling petrol. Sometimes we do a dual fuel fill, do the diesel car first, don't pay, then do the petrol, but make sure the operator is aware of the procedure before you start, then pay for the lot in one payment. Never had a problem doing that, and it saves time too.

Many petrol stations near to boatyards have an understanding and normally allow a more realistic quantity. 

You can always fill up riverside, pay a lot more for it, but risk having stale fuel that has been in storage for a year or more.  Most outboards don't like stale fuel older than three months. So worth getting some petrol fuel stabiliser... more cost, so compare that to buying week old fresh and cheap fuel from a roadside supplier, and maybe do an extra run in the car if required, off set this against the higer costs of riverside just for convenience.

Yes we have bought riverside, 10-15 litres max but blend the fuel 50/50 with fresh roadside fuel. Seems to help the running. I label the fuel containers with date of purchase and where bought so I know what I am blending. Of course all fuel tank filling is done ashore away from the boat and down wind, and watch out for smokers walking past you, or lit barbeques.

Your choice, your money, your time.

[Baitrunner]

I think Tesco have the 2 can policy. The wife was told off filling the cans for the mower at the same time as the outboard 12l tank. Luckily I dont have to rely on always filling the tank up. 

Timely reminder though from Viking about petrol safety after last Saturdays incident at Burton Waters. They don't have a fuel pontoon anymore and at least 2 boats less. The poor guy on a Fairline had only just tied up when the boat refuelling went up.

Rumour is the petrol boat that was refuelling had someone cooking onboard at the time. Don't think that has been confirmed yet, but fortunately no one was injured. 

Ventilation, ventilation, ventilation. And NO naked flames!!

[MauriceMynah]

20 minutes ago, Viking23 said:

Of course all fuel tank filling is done ashore away from the boat and down wind, and watch out for smokers walking past you, or lit barbeques.

WOW, you get 'lit barbeques' walking past you. That's handy.  

Sorry, no, really I am  

[Viking23]

10 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

WOW, you get 'lit barbeques' walking past you. That's handy.  

Sorry, no, really I am  

Of course barbeques should have legs, stops them setting light to the wooden quay side tops. lol 

I have also seen some "walk" into the river at the end of a session too. Often with a slight push... It's these cheap light with a match ones with an aluminium foil tray that damage the moorings most. 

The BA only need to place a few 60 x60 cm concrete paving stones into the ground here and there, so they can mow over them, they would make ideal barbeque bases. 

 

[ChrisB]

Many years ago, when I was in my late teens and on arduous training in the Brecons (told you it was many years ago) I witnessed an Army petrol cooker catch fire. The cooker was not lit but was being refueled. The vapour from the petrol being poured into to the cooker tank ran down hill about 25ft to a cooker already deployed and flashed back.

When employed in Chemical Engineering I was on a H&S team investigating a fatality in the labs. A young lady chemist was using  Ether, acetone, and MEK and had failed to seal their containers the vapours from which crept along a bench nearly 40ft long to a naked flame.

[Viking23]

26 minutes ago, ChrisB said:

Many years ago, when I was in my late teens and on arduous training in the Brecons (told you it was many years ago) I witnessed an Army petrol cooker catch fire. The cooker was not lit but was being refueled. The vapour from the petrol being poured into to the cooker tank ran down hill about 25ft to a cooker already deployed and flashed back.

When employed in Chemical Engineering I was on a H&S team investigating a fatality in the labs. A young lady chemist was using  Ether, acetone, and MEK and had failed to seal their containers the vapours from which crept along a bench nearly 40ft long to a naked flame.

Chris you have made me smile with your comments, I have Roz in stitches all the time now, as when I refer to my experiences, I start off with...

When I was an Electronic Engineer... 

When I ran the CE testing department...

When I was a maths teacher... blah blah.

When I was a product manager in the States...

I think it stems from the various careers we have both held and the vast experiences we have gained, that have made us what we are.

 

Re solvents, so easy to do... sometimes I use an Aldi paint solvent to wipe down things before painting, I always open the garage door first, but the fumes are very strong. Any cloths I use I put outside in a metal container away from the garage and let the fumes evaporate for a day before disposing. 

Another issue is teak oil or danish oil or similar oil soaked rags, if left in a heap, can actually spontaneously combust without any additional heat or sparks. 

Best to submerse them in water, ( and I don't mean chuck them in the river either) think about that if you have been working on the boat. 

Good post Chris a reminder to us all.

Best regards,

Richard

[addicted]

I remember seeing a film on T.V.. once designed to demonstrate how fuel vapour travels. With a special effects camera they filled vehicles at a petrol station and the vapour was made visible I've never forgotten how far and quickly it travelled, the memory of it comes back clearly each time I'm in a fuel station.

Carole