Whats Missing

[Islander]

dnks34 thanks, got it now. Grey moment.

 

Colin

[thingamybob]

14 hours ago, Islander said:

 

The PC have got 5 months to organise them selves, let's hope they don't follow thorps proposal of no return in 48hrs and car park like contract law.

That is what has happened on the Thames, it has totally ruined the free and easy mooring policy. In Reading, due to overstayers the local council have imposed a flat daily mooring charge of over nine pounds even if you stop for a few minutes to get a bit of shopping or fuel.

From what I have heard, the overstayers / liveaboards (not the genuine Continuous Cruiser Fraternity) are just seeing how far they can they can push it. I have no quarrel with people living on boats as long as they play the game and keep moving or get a residential mooring. Hopefully the problems will not come onto the Broads in the volumes that are ruining the Thames.

I spoke to an official of the Great Ouse Boating Association (GOBA) last year and he told me that approximately half the new registrations last year on the Great Ouse were liveaboard boats. The problem is getting closer so look out BA.  

[addicted]

Boating on the great Ouse was effectively ruined by liveaboards as the majority of them are narrow boats that take up much more mooring space than cruisers. The impact there is all the greater because cruisers there of necessity have to be generally smaller than most of those on the broads because of the height and width restrictions of all the locks. They overstay constantly and there is much less of an authority presence their to keep a supervisory eye and what there isn,'t very vigilant.

[JennyMorgan]

Thingamybob, you are quite right & I agree with you entirely. However, your response does raise a few concerns. For many, one of my daughters included, being a liveaboard is the only rational solution to what really is a national disgrace. My daughter, like so many, can only get zero hours contracts meaning that even with enough saved for a deposit she is finding that getting her own home is next to impossible. The Broads Authority had a solution that would have helped many, Jenner's Basin on Thorpe Island, it won't be happening. Planning policies are so often against those on low incomes seeking a home. Financial policies are against those seeking a home. Employment policies too, it is a disgrace because the solution is there. There is so much redundant land around the Broads, unsuitable for housing because of flooding issues which could be ideal for formal liveaboard communities, however birds take precedence over humans, the system & societies'  priorities are flawed. The average local wage is under the national average, so often the only folk who can afford local properties are people from outside the area. You ask that liveaboards play by the rules. Mooring prices are based on what folk are prepared to pay, or are able to pay but liveaboards can rarely afford marina charges. My daughter, like many others, wants to provide for herself, but the system just won't allow her to.  Providing for liveaboards should be a national project and not just because of need but also because it would, in part, take the pressure off greenfield sites. Liveaboards have a place on the Broads, we should embrace them as part of the rich mix that makes the Broads the Broads.

[addicted]

If liveaboards became some sort of recognised project, ways would be found of making it more expensive than it is now with all sorts of rules and regulations being  introduced that would effectively remove the attraction of that way of lfe  and overspill into all aspects of boat ownership. Thusfar boating is relatively red tape and "big brother interference free I'd prefer to keep it that way.

Carole

 

 

[CaptinDread]

20 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

But where have they gone? A problem, if it really was one, just moved on?

The dawncraft was taken to the broads yard and smashed to pieces, the sailing yacht was torched by someone.

[JennyMorgan]

20 minutes ago, addicted said:

If liveaboards became some sort of recognised project, ways would be found of making it more expensive than it is now with all sorts of rules and regulations being  introduced that would effectively remove the attraction of that way of lfe  and overspill into all aspects of boat ownership. Thus Far boating is relatively red tape and "big brother interference free I'd prefer to keep it that way.

Carole

Carol, may I respectfully suggest that you read the Broads Act! 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, JennyMorgan said:

Thingamybob, you are quite right & I agree with you entirely. However, your response does raise a few concerns. For many, one of my daughters included, being a liveaboard is the only rational solution to what really is a national disgrace. My daughter, like so many, can only get zero hours contracts meaning that even with enough saved for a deposit she is finding that getting her own home is next to impossible. The Broads Authority had a solution that would have helped many, Jenner's Basin on Thorpe Island, it won't be happening. Planning policies are so often against those on low incomes seeking a home. Financial policies are against those seeking a home. Employment policies too, it is a disgrace because the solution is there. There is so much redundant land around the Broads, unsuitable for housing because of flooding issues which could be ideal for formal liveaboard communities, however birds take precedence over humans, the system & societies'  priorities are flawed. The average local wage is under the national average, so often the only folk who can afford local properties are people from outside the area. You ask that liveaboards play by the rules. Mooring prices are based on what folk are prepared to pay, or are able to pay but liveaboards can rarely afford marina charges. My daughter, like many others, wants to provide for herself, but the system just won't allow her to.  Providing for liveaboards should be a national project and not just because of need but also because it would, in part, take the pressure off greenfield sites. Liveaboards have a place on the Broads, we should embrace them as part of the rich mix that makes the Broads the Broads.

Well said , people tend to forget the other side of the coin , its not just birds that take precedence over areas a lot of it has to do with peoples attitudes taking precedence too , there have been lots of opinions voiced on this subject over the yrs regarding the broads and many have said all liveaboards should be in a marina but also indicating just not mine or anywhere near me , Jenner's could have been perfect for just such a project as you rightly point out but as per usual it couldn't happen and now is likely to be left to rot all because of attitudes , I don't believe anyone can back what happened at Thorpe and then in the same breath complain about boats out on the river on wild moorings around the area , where can they go there is no where to accommodate them .

To class it as a disgrace is absolutely right its exactly that , people want to stand on their own 2 feet and progress with their lives and the system as you quite rightly state will not let them . 

[addicted]

50 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Carol, may I respectfully suggest that you read the Broads Act! 

I don't think I'll do that I have a strong suspicion that ignorance is bliss in this instance. If it's that draconian I have to think it's not bring enforced particularly thoroughly

 

 

Carole

[Guest]

1 hour ago, addicted said:

I don't think I'll do that I have a strong suspicion that ignorance is bliss in this instance. If it's that draconian I have to think it's not bring enforced particularly thoroughly

 

 

Carole

Trust me you wouldn't want everything that in the act enforcing particularly thoroughly otherwise quite a few would be in trouble , thing is if you don't at least look at it you don't know the rules that govern the broads an not all of them are there for the sake of being just rules a lot of it is safety orientated , so while ignorance might well be bliss its no excuse if you are caught in the wrong .

However I would like to know what aspects of the Broads act you feel are not being particularly enforced ? .

[rightsaidfred]

Whilst livaboards may not be a major concern on the Broads at the moment if my local river is anything to go by it soon will be and neither Jenners or anywhere else will resolve the problem.

Many stretches of river bank opposite the towpath are privately owned and used for permanent mooring and at a guess predominately Residential at least one with a club house, not a problem they are all well kept and the incumbents well behaved and courteous and also making a financial contribution, unfortunately we now have a considerable problem at all the access points with numerous livaboards monopolising the towpath, not only are they restricting access for others including anglers but some have aggressive dogs obviously intended to intimidate plus rubbish strewn about, while I am not suggesting all are like this the worst elements are comparable to some of the traveller community and would not be interested in regulated moorings, we have already seen some examples at Pyes mill.

Fred

[brandenjg]

5 hours ago, CaptinDread said:

The dawncraft was taken to the broads yard and smashed to pieces, the sailing yacht was torched by someone.

Wish I'd known about the dawncraft, would of been able to get some spare parts off it.

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, rightsaidfred said:

Whilst livaboards may not be a major concern on the Broads at the moment if my local river is anything to go by it soon will be and neither Jenners or anywhere else will resolve the problem.

Many stretches of river bank opposite the towpath are privately owned and used for permanent mooring and at a guess predominately Residential at least one with a club house, not a problem they are all well kept and the incumbents well behaved and courteous and also making a financial contribution, unfortunately we now have a considerable problem at all the access points with numerous livaboards monopolising the towpath, not only are they restricting access for others including anglers but some have aggressive dogs obviously intended to intimidate plus rubbish strewn about, while I am not suggesting all are like this the worst elements are comparable to some of the traveller community and would not be interested in regulated moorings, we have already seen some examples at Pyes mill.

Fred

Fred there is no where for them to go too hence they go yo Pye's mill because up until recently it was not under the control of BA .

As for some having dangerous dogs I'm sure I don't nerd to point out that owning a dangerous dog is in fact a criminal offence and as such should be reported , that then get the wheels in motion by various authorities to resolve the situation if such a situation exists , many times not be dog owners perceive that some dogs are dangerous including German shepherds , and yet the police and armed force's use them , its simply not enough to guess a dog is dangerous because of its breed , my Alsatian/ husky is a brilliant guard dog n nothing passes him at all but he is trained and would only act if I or our home / boat was under attack .

With regards to rubbish n belongings all over the path way tow path or what ever my rule is this if it can't fit on your boat then you should not impose on others property ever  , I'm not going g to get started on angler's obstructing tow paths and lock moorings etc because I know they do and trust me they are sometimes as aggressive as any dog can be .

An awful lot of people who live aboard just want to be perfectly reasonable with society but society and some boat owners too don't seam to be able to differentiate between good and bad , iv live afloat for 12 yrs now and yes I fully accept there is a group of people who think that all you need is a boat n absolutely nothing else and refuse to abide but any rules and hence I get very hacked off by being tarred with the same brush as do many others .

If more was done to help people who choose to live afloat and by that I mean proper regulated moorings not a makeshift camp as we see now then I'm sure those that are responsible live a boards would be very happy but that take's society's views to shift including house and none live a board boat owners and planner's etc .

Its also worth bearing In mind that not everyone want to be in a marina and wants to cruise continuously but that said they have no right at all to impose themselves on others land etc .

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

This has been a good read, and with many excellent posts. 

One thing that liveaboards could do to make themselves acceptable is to smarten up their boats. When you see some of the boats that people live on, you could quite easily be forgiven for thinking they were wrecks, and just about to sink.  I know all the talk about not judging a book by its cover, but people do just that, and those that give them rise to do so should take the bull by the horns, and do their best to smarten things up, in order that they will at least have the chance to change others attitudes.  I agree that there is a place for liveaboards, but it`s no surprise when people object to them when they turn up in boats like the ones that have recently been moved from Pye`s Mill.  

I know some may disagree with me, but let`s put it this way, - 

If you were applying for a new job in a smart office, or a modern clean production facility, would you turn up for the interview in ripped jeans, filthy shirt, unkempt hair, and unshaved, and keep belching, farting and F ing and blinding?, no, i did`nt think so.

[JennyMorgan]

Unsmart or neglected boats are not unique to liveaboards though! 

[Regulo]

Is that what owners of wooden boats call "taking up water"? Tightens the joints, I believe?

[JennyMorgan]

I wonder what plastic boat owners call it 

[Regulo]

Disaster! 

[Guest]

Just now, JennyMorgan said:

I wonder what plastic boat owners call it 

Sunk that's what they call it  

[Polly]

Nowt wrong with that, just needs a bit of sawdust! 

[Islander]

Cor, new dive site. Any portholes?

Colin on my way.

[addicted]

15 hours ago, Ricardo said:

Trust me you wouldn't want everything that in the act enforcing particularly thoroughly otherwise quite a few would be in trouble , thing is if you don't at least look at it you don't know the rules that govern the broads an not all of them are there for the sake of being just rules a lot of it is safety orientated , so while ignorance might well be bliss its no excuse if you are caught in the wrong .

However I would like to know what aspects of the Broads act you feel are not being particularly enforced ? .

Nothing specific I just thought that if I was unaware of stringent or possibly fatuous legislation being in place if it was being enforced I would have been made aware of it

 

 

Caro!e

[addicted]

When the boat safety scheme first came into being we were moored on the Gt. Ouse.There was a lot of concern that inspectors many of whom had Not known  one end of a boat from the other before taking the inspectorate course, would be over zealous and being unfamiliar with boats would be unable to app!y a little informed common sense where it was required. And this fear appeared to be well founded when a friend was told by the inspector to bore a hole in his cockpit floor (this being his engine bay cover) so that in the event of a fire in his engine bay he could poke a fire extinguisher through the hole and put out the fire!. When we were due to have our boat tested for the first time, my husbandrefused to allow me to be present as he was concerned as to my reaction if the inspector suggested something stupid. I don't suffer fools gladly I must admit and we had by that time heard so many stories bordering on the ridiculous , I understood his concern.There was no need to worry, the inspector we had chosen knew his stuff and we passed with flying colours!

 

Carole

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, addicted said:

When the boat safety scheme first came into being we were moored on the Gt. Ouse.There was a lot of concern that inspectors many of whom had Not known  one end of a boat from the other before taking the inspectorate course, would be over zealous and being unfamiliar with boats would be unable to app!y a little informed common sense where it was required. And this fear appeared to be well founded when a friend was told by the inspector to bore a hole in his cockpit floor (this being his engine bay cover) so that in the event of a fire in his engine bay he could poke a fire extinguisher through the hole and put out the fire!. When we were due to have our boat tested for the first time, my husbandrefused to allow me to be present as he was concerned as to my reaction if the inspector suggested something stupid. I don't suffer fools gladly I must admit and we had by that time heard so many stories bordering on the ridiculous , I understood his concern.There was no need to worry, the inspector we had chosen knew his stuff and we passed with flying colours!

 

Carole

The problem with BSS is it can be interpreted in more that one way on certain aspects , I did witness a furious argument onboard a then girlfriend's boat re gas installation between 2 guys from corgi 1 BSS examiner and the original installer of the pipe work , BSS guy won BTW and the work was re done but the guys from corgi stated it should have passed as it way , the problem being a gas pipe coming through a steel bulkhead without a sleeve or better a proper bulkhead fitting .

[addicted]

Just now, Ricardo said:

The problem with BSS is it can be interpreted in more that one way on certain aspects , I did witness a furious argument onboard a then girlfriend's boat re gas installation between 2 guys from corgi 1 BSS examiner and the original installer of the pipe work , BSS guy won BTW and the work was re done but the guys from corgi stated it should have passed as it way , the problem being a gas pipe coming through a steel bulkhead without a sleeve or better a proper bulkhead fitting .

A friend was getting a boat sorted out that had failed its test on a pipe being incorrect simply because it lacked the kite mark. He went to a company in Soham that specialises in pipes of all types He took the offending pipe with him so that he could make it clear as to what he required. The chap he saw was incredulous, and wanted know why he was replacing it because apparently the existing pipe was what was routinely used in military aircraft and was immensely superior to it's proposed replacement. This was duly to!d to the Inspector who promptly agreed to leave it as was and issued a pass certificate!

 

 

Carole