Fire Safety Sticks?

[marshman]

Anyone have any experience or knowledge about these?

https://firesafetystick.com/

https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=fire+safety+stick&adgrpid=78187154616&gclid=CjwKCAjwlZf3BRABEiwA8Q0qq8ho21pMHa9KgRXcSFYLC30tpcNHaRNAnqzFGUQ3s6HuCs3M6tjVPRoCpIEQAvD_BwE&hvadid=381563951686&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9045093&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=b&hvrand=15245342455148697091&hvtargid=kwd-775988933201&hydadcr=18510_1793628&tag=googhydr-21&ref=pd_sl_91x56fh21d_b

 

Apparently there has been a lot of comment in some magazines such as PBO and indeed Classic Car magazines on their effectiveness. Having had a fire I realise how dangerous fires  can be and if they are better than the dry powder variety, no cost is too high if safety is paramount.

Any one used one? How good are they? I am sure it will take the BSC a few years to catch up but I have been thinking about carrying some in addition to the powder type. I am always wary of the powder type given the damage that the white powder can do, especially to an engine if running.

[marshman]

Ops in the wrong slot - meant to put it into Broads Chat!! Please please Mods can it be moved???

[Ray]

They look like an excellent idea. I had no idea about the damage powder extinguishers can do to engines until I read your post.

[grendel]

it looks wonderful, but (and its a big but) is it compliant with the BSS, would you still need the normal fire extinguishers on board because they are required for the BSS?

I also wonder how it extinguishes the fire if it has no chemicals.

Its certainly something for me to ask next time I do fire safety training at work.

[grendel]

I also note watching the video, the chap has to almost reach right into the fire to extinguish it, a lot closer than I would expect most people to want to get to a real fire (I have been a chief fire marshal at work, and seen how some people react when on training), most are very tentative about getting close to the fire, the chap in the video had his hands within inches of the flames at one point, so must have been very confident in the product to do so.

Also I would have expected to see some form of acceptance for the product from one of the fire safety services, it appears not to have any form of certification such as fire extinguishers normally carry.

(oh and moved to broads chat.)

[marshman]

What impressed me was the length of time they fired for - 50 seconds is a long time or even 25 seconds with the shorter version is log enough if it works. I have always worried about the powder ones as to whether after a length of time, they still work.

No - it won't be compliant with the BSS but I will comply anyway with the standard extinguishers!

[Vaughan]

Its action looks to me rather like Halon, which is very effective at knocking down flames, such as in a car engine.  It is illegal nowadays in a living space although you can have an automatic one in an engine compartment.  Its fumes are noxious and can kill.

If it is from America then the rules may be different there.  This is assuming it is Halon but I notice they don't tell you anywhere what it actually is.

Dry powder is still the best in a boat, despite the mess, as it has the effect of smothering a fire as well as knocking down the flames.  You can actually wave a dry powder extinguisher in front of you and it will smother a fire long enough for you to get through to a door.  Believe me, I have done it.  Although only in training!

 

[ChrisB]

No industrialised nations have used Halon since 1.1.2000 under the Montreal Protocol.

The exception was aero engines and most Halon extinquishers were disposed of by recyling within aviation. BA had it's own scrubber plant at Heathrow to recycle halon.

Halon is a very powerful Atmospheric polutant and ozone depleter. It however had the fastest knockdown, left no residues and did not cause electrical shorts, hence why it was favoured by aerospace.

As a general rule in a fire situation just get everyone out and safe. 

Edited June 15, 2020 by ChrisB

[ChrisB]

They appear to be a potassium powder that vaporises, hence no residue.

[TheQ]

Fire stick use potassium powder salt,  it vapourises  and oxidises  consuming oxygen in the process. 

[marshman]

Thanks for the science chaps - now anyone used them or had any experience of them? Unlike Vaughan, I mistrust the use of the powder ones!!!

If PBO and all the Classic Car mags seem to "endorse" them, I wonder why it took so long for people to hear of them in this part of the world?

[grendel]

where is that @jayfire when you need him

[MauriceMynah]

I think they were mentioned here (or on the NBF) some years ago. I looked into them but found them to be too expensive. Petrol engines have a higher fire risk than Diesel so perhaps worth having them there but for a Diesel engined boat, I would have said unnecessary.

The cleanliness of the devices may be a selling point for cabin fires but dry powder does the job.

I would be very interested in Jayfire's view. Should (BSS permitting) they be present with or instead of the conventional extinguishers?

[marshman]

If you have ever had a fire on board MM, cost would be the last of your worries!!!! ( The other worry should be that in my experience, even the best insurance companies will find "wriggle " room as to your claim! )

[ChrisB]

All my serious sea-goers were fitted with Origo alcohol hob and ovens* so if that was the source you could use water I carried dry powder in case of electrical. 40 miles offshore you need to be self sufficient.

With an inland cruiser mostly being a floating caravan with bottled gas, aerosols of all types (did you know a can of lynx blew the front gable off a house) bottles of spirits and all sorts of cleaning fluids. If you are not absolutely sure you can deal with it in under 30 seconds to a minute get out and let it burn.

More than ever the smart money is on staying alive not being a dead hero.

* except for a share I had in a Hillyard which had a Taylors.

[ChrisB]

Had to deal with Tesco delivery.

I was going to say that should the furnishings start to burn you are at a real risk of Hydrogen Cyanide and Carbon Monoxide poisoning which will overcome you very quickly.

Contrary to what is printed and often believed very very few people burn to death. The deadly cocktail of their smoke inhalation brings death before they get burnt.

Get out and leave fighting fire to the professionals

[MauriceMynah]

My own risk assessment here. If there was a fire onboard Nyx the two most probable sources would be the cooker or the batteries.

If at batteries I would have to lift cockpit floor to gain access. Not knowing what I would find, I wouldn't do that so abandon ship and phone 999.

If at cooker,  I'd use either dry powder or fire blanket. I would be reluctant to use anything that extinguishes by removing the oxygen where I'm standing. How safe is using one of these in an enclosed area?

I have used dry powder in an enclosed place, and although it leaves the user with a sore mouth, that's about it.

If I believed that having one of these devices in addition to that which I already have would significantly increase my chances of survival, then of course money would not figure highly in my decision about getting one, however as it stands now, worrying about whether or not to get one would be akin to obsessing about who may or may not have been touching the batteries!   :-) 

[grendel]

MM i have a third possible location on your boat, the bonded stores locker.

[ChrisB]

With MM's previous provisioning list the bonded locker needs to be a full Low Flash point, fully pyro-banned area!

[MauriceMynah]

Is there such a thing as a tonic water fire extinguisher?

[ChrisB]

There is an anecdote, by a well known TV personality now sadly passed in her autobiography.

She developed an illness or a problem associated with quinine it was found. When asked why on earth was she getting through something like 3 litres of Schweppes Tonic a day she replied I like G&T 3:1.

[Ray]

I was interested in what the BSS thought, so I asked! Their reply, as you can see didn't refer to them specifically but rather the regulations regarding extinguishers in general. I posted the page they refer to under their reply so I guess we'd need to see one to check what accreditation is on it.

I have an automatic engine compartment extinguisher and quite liked the idea of one of these after reading the advice about powder and engines!

 

""Hello Ray.
Thank you for your query about Firesticks.

The requirements for portable fire extinguisher are covered in Section 1 of Part 6 of the BSS Examination Checking Procedures pages 37-39.

Unless the Firesticks are certified by a recognised approvals body (see check 6.1.2 page 38) as meeting the specifications detailed in the other checks, then this apparatus won't be recognised for BSS purposes.

Kind regards

Boat Safety Scheme Office
First Floor North,
Station House,
500 Elder Gate,
Milton Keynes, MK9 1BB""

 

 

[ChrisB]

Outside of Italy and Spain it does not appear to have certification that I would recognise. Quite alot on their website are manufacturing standards not fire standards.

[grendel]

that was my read on it too, while they may work, they are not certified as fire fighting apparatus, i did find an explanation that said there was some sort of activation that produced a gas that was already in the atmosphere, sounds a little like carbon dioxide.

[marshman]

I don't think there is any question about whether its actually certified as I suspect it is just too new - and in any case as there is a thriving industry in checking the old type annually at some cost, the cynic in me would suggest that it would struggle to get approval, as it is just "too new fangled"!

However  I think I have seen enough to probably have one as just because  I do not if possible, want the mess a powder one makes nor the damage it can do to your engine if its running.