So What Is Going On At Herbert Woods

[andyg]

17 minutes ago, CambridgeCabby said:

The older Connoisseur boats whilst often looking tired are also very popular with repeat customers and I must admit although we never hired one I have been aboard a couple and they seem to be a very good budget option for larger groups or two families  not everyone has the means to hire a new R45 .

Yes boats have problems , resulting in the yard having to called out and I have seen and heard nothing but praise for the service HW has given when called upon , in a perfect world there wouldn’t be a need for a call out but nothings perfect .

we have seen Brooms finest flagship nose into the reeds awaiting help from the yard due to steering failure , many times one of Richardson’s newer fleet with dead batteries or stuck roofs in fact all yards will have at some time had to go and assist a stricken boat .

Many if not all yards suggest starting the engine before firing up the heating , maybe some hirers mishear and believe they have to continue to run the engine , others (especially families) moor up and have the tv , often more than one , on all day with youngsters on PlayStations , long power showers , hair straighteners and dryers running, electric thrusters and windlasses and they are shocked the batteries struggle .

 

 

I've hired the 38ft version, back in the P&H days at Wroxham. They are fantastic boats and still are they just need some investment/ tlc. I quite like the engine noise it reminds me of the old wilds Bermudas etc etc. It would be wrong to fit a silencer to them. 

[NorfolkNog]

On call outs generally I've seen Swancraft's call out sheets from the hire days. 

Very few call outs anyway and the vast majority were 'hirer error' 

Good preventative maintenance and good charging/battery systems reap dividends. Cutting corners doesn't pay in the long run IMHO 

Talking of Bridgecraft, I think I've only called them out once and that was in summer! Spend many weeks in winter without any problems at all. 

[andyg]

Never had to call summercraft out and royalls only once and that turned out to be my sons fault. He'd been switching the heating controls on and off as we had been going along. We weren't aware as it was in the back saloon it mucked up the glow plug. Soon fixed, a nice display of smoke from the heater to prove it lol. Standards I guess, yes things go wrong if it's mechanical it's bound to. But some suffer far more then others... 

[Mouldy]

1 hour ago, andyg said:

What you never got free fuel ?? I did once. Sue rang the booking through to hoseasons and told them that's free fuel on this hire. I didn't say a word I just walked out and thought result lol..very high standards indeed. Did you know they took up all the floors during winter maintenance and washed the bilges out. Most the boats were covered in tarpaulins during the winter. I guess to protect the superstructure paint work. That wouldn't be cheap having to keep repainting that. Good to see there keeping a couple of boats running. I saw gala girl in Norwich whilst having a beer on the patio at the Nelson. She looked absolutely spotless when she passed by. Standards that have disappeared at most yards

They used to offer free fuel for retiring customers until BAT was imposed on red diesel, then had to stop.  We enjoyed that luxury for at least three holidays until about 2007 I think it was.  After that, Sue found other ways to give some sort of discount to returnees.  To be honest, I don’t even think we were charged damage waiver for the last few times we hired from there.

[Mouldy]

1 hour ago, CambridgeCabby said:

The older Connoisseur boats whilst often looking tired are also very popular with repeat customers and I must admit although we never hired one I have been aboard a couple and they seem to be a very good budget option for larger groups or two families  not everyone has the means to hire a new R45 .

We hired from Connoisseur a number of times, twice on the 29ft, 2 berth version, once on the 42ft, 6 berth, three times on the 37ft, 3 berth all of the old style and once in 1995 of the 45 ft updated style.

The 45 ft remains probably my favourite boat we ever hired.  It was spacious, roomy heads and showers, good visibility from the saloon, had a low airdraft with the canopy down and quiet when onboard and underway, although anyone following may not have thought that due to the fruity exhaust note!  The only downside was possibly the side door, although I don’t see that as being worse than say the original version of the AF low liner, where access was through the upper helm, or some of the newer flybridge cruisers where one has to cross the upper sundeck to access the steps down into the boat.

I’d like to buy one of the later style 40ft versions, but the cost of bringing it to the required standard would be prohibitive.  I know someone who owns a 45ft one and his spend on it has been huge, but she does look impressive out on the river.

[Mouldy]

13 minutes ago, Mouldy said:

They used to offer free fuel for retiring customers until BAT was imposed on red diesel, then had to stop.  We enjoyed that luxury for at least three holidays until about 2007 I think it was.  After that, Sue found other ways to give some sort of discount to returnees.  To be honest, I don’t even think we were charged damage waiver for the last few times we hired from there.

For retiring read returning and BAT should be VAT.  Bloody predictive!! 😡

[FlyingFortress]

4 hours ago, NorfolkNog said:

The last time we hired from Herbert Woods the heating didn't work all the holiday. In spite of several call outs and even taking the boat back to the yard the engineer just kept blaming us for not running the engine enough. I make use of every second of Broads time and probably cover more miles than most. We just had the oven on all week. Hirerd Humber Bridge in December and February and the heating started faultlessly every time without needing to run the engine. 

I know this may sound controversial but I believe that is how boat heating is supposed to work.

Maybe the gas bottles being empty on The Lads Week was due to previous hirers having to keep the oven on all night to stay warm.

[FlyingFortress]

The bit I meant to quote was the but about the heating starting first time every time without starting the engine.

[Andrewcook]

What I don't get is the cost of Hiring the Boat has gone up and some of the Older boats cost as much as the newer ones are very wrong in my view unless it jas a refit fine as to maintenance should be good with faults being reported from the previous Higher?

[andyg]

To be fair and balanced about woods, there's been some considerable investment in recent years into the business. A whole new picnic boat fleet the new compact cruiser classes plus the big dual steer jobs. There's a few million quid there I would guess. The problem they have and it's been like it for years, is the lack of any real refurbishment programme for the older boats. Lots are very tired and worn out boats inside. The external presentation of hire boat doesn't seem to bother more then just  woods. I stand by what I've said I'd quite happily hire the boats I have again without hesitation. I don't believe for one minute they are an organisation that should be avoid at all costs, that's utter nonsense. 

[Hylander]

5 hours ago, andyg said:

 On a positive note the weather is meant be a lot warmer so we can all switch off that heating and stop watching the little cheeky dial on the leccy meter wizz around. 

is that a promise?

[Hylander]

We hired a small Connoisseur in 1982 and the heating never did work.   It was April and it snowed.   I have never been so cold in my life.   I got back to work and vowed and declared I would never never go on a Broads boat again.    Strange that as we even owned our own boat for 10 years.       Now we hire once more.

 

 

[Oddfellow]

Oh dear. I was talking to an engineer at HW a couple of years ago and he really wasn't impressed with the level of maintenance that was happening. Engineers were flying all over the place to replace batteries the day after handover. He himself witnessed a good percentage of a battery bank that was on hire had actually exploded on board. 

There is no real excuse for batteries at the start of the season to be shot. It's plain and simple, the boat either hadn't had a proper engineering check or they simply ignored an obvious problem. Either way, the holidaymaker is being abused in my opinion. 

Grendel says that a proper drop test should take hours. Yes, that's true, but a full capacity drop test is quite unnecessary on a boat prep day and a simple load drop test will quickly identify iffy batteries. It takes moments, trust me, I did it for more than a decade. 

We resovled many battery issues by installing chargers on all boats. When it came into port, we plugged it in and walked away. Very few batteries died after this as the battery banks remained largely unchanged because there was no swapping. It cost a lot of money but that was quickly saved in the changing process that could take 20 plus minutes per boat. It also saved us having 15 or more spare batteries on  the shelf.   

[FlyingFortress]

So down at Ranworth this afternoon. Beautiful day but a bit of a cold wind.

Around a dozen boats there all hire IIRC. About half of them with heaters running.

Bet you can't guess which one was running it's engine continuously.

Makes you wonder what kind of idiot installed the battery condition monitor on the dashboard .

[Oddfellow]

Also, the instruction of putting the oven on to stay warm is appalling advice. For every litre of LPG you burn, you pump a litre of moisture into the air and that creates condensation which will already be a real problem at this time of year. 

 

 

[FlyingFortress]

Thank you Andy for a very informative reply from someone who has been at the front end of hire fleet operations for some time.

It all seemed so simple to me but of course I am unqualified as I have never run a hire fleet.

I have however run ocean going ships under a quality management system all my career so kind of thought I had some little insight into how to run a boat.

[Dan]

19 minutes ago, FlyingFortress said:

Thank you Andy for a very informative reply from someone who has been at the front end of hire fleet operations for some time.

It all seemed so simple to me but of course I am unqualified as I have never run a hire fleet.

I have however run ocean going ships under a quality management system all my career so kind of thought I had some little insight into how to run a boat.

I always think somewhere between both stories lies the truth (and you only know one)

You only have one side of the story and are absolutely certain what you are told is exactly what happened.  

The oven comment could have been elaborated or taken out of context, as you were not there at the time, was it even said, was it said with a wry smile connected to a longer sentence... is it really very likely someone would say just use the oven...  does it make sense, was there a slight agenda, was there a slight exageration or embellishment to improve a story.....does the truth lie not exactly as it was told... 

This said I also think non Elite HW boats often look a bit scruffy to my eye and think there ex Connoisseur's are quite pricey for what they are, but I still don't always believe everything is quite as I am told it unless I have heard it with my own ears or seen it with my own eyes

Dan

[FlyingFortress]

Hello Dan 

Long time no see

As you say I really have no Idea if these folks were lying through their teeth or not.

All I saw was a really rough looking boat running it's engine late on in the afternoon when the sun was quite warm and they had the canopy open .

Usual banter with holidaymakers as I was walking my now elderly dog.

Conversation went something like this.

Wow you have picked a nice day to be out. 

Yes it's the first time we have been warm since we took the boat out.

It's got good heating hasn't it 

Yes but as soon as we turned the engine off last night the heater went off and we were freezing last night.

Did you not call the yard.

Not until this morning when the boat would not start then the engineer came and replaced a battery.

Just one 

Yes. Should the heater work when the engine is off.

And so on. As my dog is very elderly now they showed me their 21 year old dog that was suffering and they were worried for him.

They did state that the engineer had said to put the oven on and leave it on overnight to keep warm and they were worried if this was safe or not. I then said about the CO detector. They then asked about a flame out device and I said it should have one.

They suggested that if all batteries had failed then should they trust any other mechanics on the boat and I agreed that maybe they should not.

I would have felt very guilty if I had reassured them that this was Safe and then they had been found dead this morning.

Using an oven to keep warm because a hire company cannot be bothered changing out domestic batteries is totally unacceptable IMHO 

But then what do I know. As stated before I do not know what is acceptable when sending a boat out on hire.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bytheriver]

On the subject of diesel fired boat heaters which are basically truck cab heaters ( so turned on at the end of probably 8hours + driving) the usual advice for boats is to start the engine and run fast enough for the gauge to show a charge before switching on then run till unit is putting out heat (so the glowplug is at running temperature) then shut off engine. 

These units have improved a lot in recent years & when hiring I always made a habit of trying to do a couple of hours cruising on takeover on the basis that the previous user could have well been in the yard since the previous evening

I never had a boat with external 240v provision.

[FlyingFortress]

53 minutes ago, Bytheriver said:

On the subject of diesel fired boat heaters which are basically truck cab heaters ( so turned on at the end of probably 8hours + driving) the usual advice for boats is to start the engine and run fast enough for the gauge to show a charge before switching on then run till unit is putting out heat (so the glowplug is at running temperature) then shut off engine. 

These units have improved a lot in recent years & when hiring I always made a habit of trying to do a couple of hours cruising on takeover on the basis that the previous user could have well been in the yard since the previous evening

I never had a boat with external 240v provision.

 

[ModeratorTeam]

Whilst there has been a fairly balanced discussion on this topic, may we gently remind members that naming and shaming is against the forum ToS. Particular issues with a yard should not be reported here but discussed by the hirer with the boatyard directly. As such members should also be careful not to post unsubstantiated reports please.

[FlyingFortress]

Sorry bud 

Wrong on so many fronts 

A quick calculation reveals 25 years I have owned boats with diesel blown air heating.

I can only recall once having to start my engine to start the heating. This was when I had a battery in my domestic bank that had failed.

Battery replaced problem solved.

 

[andyg]

I had a troll through YouTube last night to see what boat reviews I could find. Blimey Robin seems to have started something here, everybody and his dog wants in on the act. Lol. The walk through tour is quite a thing now !! I had no idea. The one thing that jumped out at me, was the sheer amount of electricity these people need to be able to function.  One guy has got God knows what plug into the only 240v socket on the boat, and an extension lead. And there lies your problem. People just don't seem to understand the power systems on these old boats are just not up to it. The batteries must take one he'll of a beating. We have grandchildren and I'm always amazed at how much technology they bring when they come over. So I assume a lot of folk that are new to boats assume the heating systems work the same way as at home. It's always difficult to take in all the info given on handover especially when the yards under pressure to get boats out. Like Dan has said we don't know the full story. I did keep an eye out on hw webcam and didn't notice any old CC boats return yesterday. So maybe they've stuck it out. Its due to warm up so let's hope they do stay and enjoy the rest of there holiday. 

[Vaughan]

There is no doubt that the biggest technical problem on hire boats these days - by far - is electrical.

The old Wilds Caribbean or the Bounty 44 would use less than 30 amp/hours a day, including engine starting and only had one 12volt battery on board.  No separate domestic circuit at all.

In the mid 90s I calculated that an 8 berth Crown Classique was using 250 amp/hours a day and that was without a TV or an inverter, or shore power.  Nowadays, Goodness knows how much power a modern top end cruiser is using.  Well over 350 a day for sure.  Somehow, you have got to put that amount back into the batteries in just 4 hours cruising a day.

Unless more shore power becomes available on overnight moorings in future then I am afraid the figures "just don't add up".

Funny thing is, the old Wilds Caribbean was offering just as good a Broads holiday, back in the late 60s, as anything new on the rivers today.

In my humble opinion of course . . . .  

[RS2021]

10 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

Funny thing is, the old Wilds Caribbean was offering just as good a Broads holiday, back in the late 60s, as anything new on the rivers today.

Maybe yards need to market more holidays as 'digital detox'. Its quite trendy with shepherd's huts and glamping.