So What Is Going On At Herbert Woods

[Hylander]

Their holiday cottages leave a lot to be desired as well,  outside and in.      When we hired we had to have the maintenance team in several times.     The outside was really shabby.     Smacks of since the whole world and his missus decided to hire a boat or cottage last year, and  you only have a certain amount of staff that you can stretch so far.      HW must have suffered with folk off with Covid , the same as everyone else.     May be now most folk will be off to Spain , thank goodness things will settle down.      

As said if people do not report short comings , on handover , no one has a crystal ball to know if there is a problem , unless someone mentions it.    

   

 

These people who make the rules sitting in offices are no in touch with the real world.

 

The only problem with the instruction regarding the running of engines,   there is always exceptions,  and if people explain to neighbours that they might have a problem in the evening or morning , they will understand.      Holiday makers are not there to maintain the boat but to enjoy their holiday.

 

Over the years I’ve spoken to hirers who’ve told me that they’ve been instructed to run their engines when running the heating.  There is no excuse for this, it flies in the face of BA guidance about running engines at moorings during the hours of 20:00 and 08:00, causes nuisance to others moored nearby and is usually on boats with smokey old engines that churn out clouds of noxious gasses (also not great for the environment).

 

[Mouldy]

11 minutes ago, grendel said:

all this speculation based on heresay evidence, this cannot be a good base to start condemning a yard for lack of maintenance, there could be any number of reasons only a single battery was fitted (eg he only had one on the van), we hired from HW as we do every year for lads week, and yes we had a few issues but it was october and end of season, we asked for replacement ropes because a couple were knotted, these were unavailable as they had used all their current on shelf stock, which is understandable, we did run out of gas at one point, (end of season and auto changeover on the gas bottles (replaced in a few hours, they bought 4 bottles and did both boats. there was a steering issue on one boat (the steel bracket holding the actuator broke off the hull (actually the bracket broke, once again quick response and their engineer got our boat going with a temporary fix, then came out again the next day with a part he had fabricated in the workshop overnight, A1 service, we did have a battery issue on one boat, they came out and replaced all of the batteries, yes things went wrong, but it was at the end of the season, and I expect all those issues reported were fixed during winter maintenance.

Their engineering team were brilliant in their responses and work, so from my experiences, I dont believe there is a problem. batteries failing at the beginning of the season, quite normal, ask any here that have run boatyards, just because a battery didnt have any reported issues at the end of last season, doesnt mean it will be fine this season, they expect a few issues at the start of a season.

With the greatest of respects, given the number of issues your party suffered over a week, their service level needed to be exceptional.  To a less experienced or novice crew, the steering failure at Reedham could have had very serious consequences, there are several chandlers not far from Potter and as ropes are very necessary items on a boat, not having any in stock is frankly a poor excuse and with a fleet that size too.  It takes seconds to lift the gas bottles on changeover to ascertain the weight.  Surely that should be one of the checks they carry out on turnaround.  Two empty bottles on a boat is inexcusable.

If that had been me, I’d have been seriously unhappy, regardless of how efficiently the issues were dealt with.  Maybe that’s because I’m intolerant, but I do think that when you pay good money, you have a right to expect a comparable level of service.

[grendel]

given the size of the bottles they could reasonable have been expected to last the entire season, the lift test would possibly have been a manual handling issue due to the full weight of the gas bottles (they had to barrow them over to the boats, and they were a two man lift.

I see I have posted incorrect information above, you dont drop test leisure batteries, its a 20 hour slow discharge process, monitoring the battery voltage and acid specific gravity, thus to test every battery in HW fleet would take over a year (presuming a single test station)

[RS2021]

Some companies put a lot of effort into putting things right when they go wrong. Some companies put a lot of effort into making sure things don't go wrong in the first place. You notice the former, because you have to deal with 'customer service'. However, you don't always notice the latter as you rarely have to call on it. But, I think customers know which sort of business they are dealing with. I'd rather do business with the latter.

[CeePee1952]

1 hour ago, andyg said:

Another point that I feel is relevant to this thread is lack of infrastructure!!  Now I'm pretty confident in saying most of HW boats and most definitely the old CC boats are equipped with shore power. Why aren't all public moorings equipped with hook up points ?? Ranworth has a completely inadequate number of hook up posts it's a joke. If there's 20 mornings why isn't there 20 plugs ?? Pubs !! Again another potential revenue stream ?? Most yards have them now and could charge an overnight hook up fee. It's ridiculous that boats are equipped with the technology but it can't be used. We're the family in question aware they had this option?? It would solve so many problems in one go. Short sightedness on BA part me thinks. 

I know when we moored up at the Bridge Inn at Acle last September, we paid a mooring fee of a fiver (non refundable).  There was shore power available too but at £3 for the night we said no thank you!

Chris

[Hylander]

12 hours ago, Mouldy said:

If I was still hiring, it’s certainly not where I’d be spending my money.  For what yards are charging now, I expect something that is properly maintained and fit for purpose.  Spending hours of a holiday that I’ve  paid a lot of money for, waiting for an engineer to resolve problems that should have been resolved on changeover is not good enough, imho.

If we are not careful , this will become the norm , that you hire a boat on the Norfolk Broads and expect to have maintenance problems.     Not good enough.

[Mouldy]

6 minutes ago, RS2021 said:

Some companies put a lot of effort into putting things right when they go wrong. Some companies put a lot of effort into making sure things don't go wrong in the first place. You notice the former, because you have to deal with 'customer service'. However, you don't always notice the latter as you rarely have to call on it. But, I think customers know which sort of business they are dealing with. I'd rather do business with the latter.

Good point, well made.  The difference between proactive and reactive.  Like you, I favour the latter.

The last time we hired was Gainsborough Girl from Summercraft in 2018.  We had two really minor issues over the week: the light bulb failed in the forward heads and the supplied hairdryer also went wrong.  I obtained a bulb from Brian Wards and fitted it myself and neither of us were bothered about the hairdryer.

I let Sue know when we returned the boat and she told me off for not phoning in about the problems, saying they’d have happily run a new hairdryer out and compensating me for the bulb, such was their customer service.

[Vaughan]

10 hours ago, FlyingFortress said:

I must say if anyone asked me now I would certainly say avoid HW at all costs.

 

43 minutes ago, FlyingFortress said:

Please don't think this is a dig at HW as I assume any business can have bad days

I am not sure how you co-relate these two comments.

46 minutes ago, FlyingFortress said:

But once again I am not qualified to comment as I have never run a hire fleet nor have had cause to hire from one 

So I am not sure what prompts you to make such spurious allegations against a business with getting on for a hundred years' experience in Broads boat hiring, other than perhaps the satisfaction of causing controversy?  Excuse me but I am mindful of only a few days ago when you loudly accused me of knowing nothing about a subject.

I certainly agree that the mechanic should never have suggested using the cooker as a space heater and there will be a sign in the galley which warns against this.  CO alarms have a test button which can just as easily be tested by the hirer (in their own interests) as by the boatyard when servicing the boat.

Meantime the hirers have contacted the boatyard. Do we know what the actual outcome of this problem is? Has it been properly sorted, or are we to rely solely on what you heard on the quayside yesterday?

[Meantime]

1 minute ago, Vaughan said:

Meantime the hirers have contacted the boatyard. Do we know what the actual outcome of this problem is? Has it been properly sorted, or are we to rely solely on what you heard on the quayside yesterday?

Hey don't bring me into this dispute!

[NorfolkNog]

The last time we hired from Herbert Woods the heating didn't work all the holiday. In spite of several call outs and even taking the boat back to the yard the engineer just kept blaming us for not running the engine enough. I make use of every second of Broads time and probably cover more miles than most. We just had the oven on all week. Hirerd Humber Bridge in December and February and the heating started faultlessly every time without needing to run the engine. 

[ScrumpyCheddar]

The majority of there boats looks like they have been in a major boat banging demolition Derby..

 If Richardsons can keep an old fleet clean and up together surely HW could aswell.. 

 

 

[andyg]

8 minutes ago, Mouldy said:

Good point, well made.  The difference between proactive and reactive.  Like you, I favour the latter.

The last time we hired was Gainsborough Girl from Summercraft in 2018.  We had two really minor issues over the week: the light bulb failed in the forward heads and the supplied hairdryer also went wrong.  I obtained a bulb from Brian Wards and fitted it myself and neither of us were bothered about the hairdryer.

I let Sue know when we returned the boat and she told me off for not phoning in about the problems, saying they’d have happily run a new hairdryer out and compensating me for the bulb, such was their customer service.

Oh I miss summercraft, last time I hired Gainsborough girl the engine compartment was cleaner then my house lol. The family next to us noticed the play station wasn't working on there boat. Off Brian went to Roy's to get a new one. Most excellent yard, even allowing for sues sometimes funny ways. 

[grendel]

25 minutes ago, Hylander said:

If we are not careful , this will become the norm , that you hire a boat on the Norfolk Broads and expect to have maintenance problems.     Not good enough.

you will always get problems, no matter at what time of the year, while I guess the hire companies are pretty thorough at the maintenance (Vaughan once posted a picture of the maintenance chart, and it was way more complex than I would have guessed) there is always the unexpected, and it can happen on the first day of the season, somewhere in the middle - or the last day. ask any boat owner, there will always be something- even if it was checked last week.

[andyg]

8 minutes ago, NorfolkNog said:

The last time we hired from Herbert Woods the heating didn't work all the holiday. In spite of several call outs and even taking the boat back to the yard the engineer just kept blaming us for not running the engine enough. I make use of every second of Broads time and probably cover more miles than most. We just had the oven on all week. Hirerd Humber Bridge in December and February and the heating started faultlessly every time without needing to run the engine. 

We will be with Bridgecraft in a few weeks time, the wife only agreed to go if I stuck to a strict budget. Both yours and Simons positive reviews on the boats and service convinced me to try them. I've spoken with Mark from the yard a couple of times since booking and found him to be a very likable chap. Looking forward to very much. 

[ScrumpyCheddar]

14 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

 

I am not sure how you co-relate these two comments.

So I am not sure what prompts you to make such spurious allegations against a business with getting on for a hundred years' experience in Broads boat hiring, other than perhaps the satisfaction of causing controversy?  Excuse me but I am mindful of only a few days ago when you loudly accused me of knowing nothing about a subject.

I certainly agree that the mechanic should never have suggested using the cooker as a space heater and there will be a sign in the galley which warns against this.  CO alarms have a test button which can just as easily be tested by the hirer (in their own interests) as by the boatyard when servicing the boat.

Meantime the hirers have contacted the boatyard. Do we know what the actual outcome of this problem is? Has it been properly sorted, or are we to rely solely on what you heard on the quayside yesterday?

Vaughan in Flying Fortress defence his main concern was the family onboard with No Heating.. It doesn’t matter if your an expert or not he had the concern of them and old dog .. 

Secondly it doesn’t matter if the name of HW has been running for over a hundred years .. it’s the management who’s running it now .. Look at Brooms in the last 18 months all they want to do it’s charge high prices and sell stupid coffees before you board your boat and look at there name in the boat building business what  they do not do anymore.. It’s the management what causes the problems .. 
 

 

[Vaughan]

11 minutes ago, ScrumpyCheddar said:

Vaughan in Flying Fortress defence his main concern was the family onboard with No Heating.. It doesn’t matter if your an expert or not he had the concern of them and old dog .. 

Secondly it doesn’t matter if the name of HW has been running for over a hundred years .. it’s the management who’s running it now .. Look at Brooms in the last 18 months all they want to do it’s charge high prices and sell stupid coffees before you board your boat and look at there name in the boat building business what  they do not do anymore.. It’s the management what causes the problems .. 
 

I appreciate what you say, and I can't pretend they are perfect!

You mention management and on a large yard there will often be a difference between the ambitions of the manager, to have enough staff and logistics to provide the service needed and the needs of the owners, which may sometimes be more financial than practical!

As it happens, I was offered the job of manager at HW, about 10 years ago when Reggie Reeve was retiring.  It turned out to be just before the yard was sold.  In hindsight I am glad I turned it down, as I think it would have been a millstone round my neck.  I could see very well what needed to be done there for the future.

But could the new owners?

[andyg]

Gentlemen let's not get personal again. Blimey see I was right about it being a Sunday thing. I very much respect everyone's opinions and veiw it can make for a very interesting debate. Taking cheap shots at each other doesn't serve any purpose. On a positive note the weather is meant be a lot warmer so we can all switch off that heating and stop watching the little cheeky dial on the leccy meter wizz around. 

[Meantime]

5 minutes ago, andyg said:

Gentlemen let's not get personal again. Blimey see I was right about it being a Sunday thing. I very much respect everyone's opinions and veiw it can make for a very interesting debate.

Why is it that whenever I see posts such as this I'm reminded of that sign on the approaches to Wroxham, "Please do not throw stones at this sign" 

Well intentioned and well meaning I'm sure, but they just seem to accelerate the downward spiral of a thread at times! Best to leave it in the capable hands of The Mods or make use of the report button. 

[BroadAmbition]

There are several chandlers not far from Potter and as ropes are very necessary items on a boat, not having any in stock is frankly a poor excuse and with a fleet that size too. 

Where H.W's are concerned - the berthing ropes turned out not to be an issue.  Yes there were a few knots in some of the berthing ropes, so before we sailed I simply asked a member of the yard staff if a neighbouring hire boat was going out that day? - No? - Good, so I swapped the ropes over mysen - simply sorted

The call out engineer(s) provide us with excellent service.  Stuff goes wrong / breaks down on all manner of craft, hire / private new or old.  Its how the yard responds and deals with issues that matters

 

Griff

[Meantime]

1 minute ago, BroadAmbition said:

Good, so I swapped the ropes over mysen - simply sorted

Sorted, providing the yard then replaced the ropes on the other boat. What's the chances those ropes are still on that other boat now? 

[Mouldy]

52 minutes ago, andyg said:

Oh I miss summercraft, last time I hired Gainsborough girl the engine compartment was cleaner then my house lol. The family next to us noticed the play station wasn't working on there boat. Off Brian went to Roy's to get a new one. Most excellent yard, even allowing for sues sometimes funny ways. 

They were great!  The boats, though old, were immaculate.  As returning hirers, we used to get free parking, when we went with our son and his family in two cars, at least one undercover and there was never a charge for our dogs.  I know with some yards that would have saved us over £100.

Sadly, the days of the small yards with such high standards are probably numbered, as business models and modern methods don’t allow for that level of care.

[Andrewcook]

Hi I agree with Griff on how a yard responds as I did have a few problems on our Hired Boat in February the first week out of our Two weeks Holiday  they called it teething problems, not H/w I would like to say 

[andyg]

12 minutes ago, Mouldy said:

They were great!  The boats, though old, were immaculate.  As returning hirers, we used to get free parking, when we went with our son and his family in two cars, at least one undercover and there was never a charge for our dogs.  I know with some yards that would have saved us over £100.

Sadly, the days of the small yards with such high standards are probably numbered, as business models and modern methods don’t allow for that level of care.

What you never got free fuel ?? I did once. Sue rang the booking through to hoseasons and told them that's free fuel on this hire. I didn't say a word I just walked out and thought result lol..very high standards indeed. Did you know they took up all the floors during winter maintenance and washed the bilges out. Most the boats were covered in tarpaulins during the winter. I guess to protect the superstructure paint work. That wouldn't be cheap having to keep repainting that. Good to see there keeping a couple of boats running. I saw gala girl in Norwich whilst having a beer on the patio at the Nelson. She looked absolutely spotless when she passed by. Standards that have disappeared at most yards

[CambridgeCabby]

The older Connoisseur boats whilst often looking tired are also very popular with repeat customers and I must admit although we never hired one I have been aboard a couple and they seem to be a very good budget option for larger groups or two families  not everyone has the means to hire a new R45 .

Yes boats have problems , resulting in the yard having to called out and I have seen and heard nothing but praise for the service HW has given when called upon , in a perfect world there wouldn’t be a need for a call out but nothings perfect .

we have seen Brooms finest flagship nose into the reeds awaiting help from the yard due to steering failure , many times one of Richardson’s newer fleet with dead batteries or stuck roofs in fact all yards will have at some time had to go and assist a stricken boat .

Many if not all yards suggest starting the engine before firing up the heating , maybe some hirers mishear and believe they have to continue to run the engine , others (especially families) moor up and have the tv , often more than one , on all day with youngsters on PlayStations , long power showers , hair straighteners and dryers running, electric thrusters and windlasses and they are shocked the batteries struggle .

 

 

[andyg]

46 minutes ago, BroadAmbition said:

There are several chandlers not far from Potter and as ropes are very necessary items on a boat, not having any in stock is frankly a poor excuse and with a fleet that size too. 

Where H.W's are concerned - the berthing ropes turned out not to be an issue.  Yes there were a few knots in some of the berthing ropes, so before we sailed I simply asked a member of the yard staff if a neighbouring hire boat was going out that day? - No? - Good, so I swapped the ropes over mysen - simply sorted

The call out engineer(s) provide us with excellent service.  Stuff goes wrong / breaks down on all manner of craft, hire / private new or old.  Its how the yard responds and deals with issues that matters

 

Griff