Advice On My Proposed Route Please

[Woodsie]

HI all, I'm an experienced boater but a Broads virgin. I'll be taking Silver Coral out form Brundell next Tuesday for a week. WE plan to stay south as we are gong for the wildlife and peace and quiet and other articles on here have endorsed that decision. The head of our party (of 2) has come up with a  proposed route. We know it might have to change but if she has a plan she feels better and it stops me trying to do too much every day.

In short we're intending to get to Gledestone on Thursday via the New Cut. Then retrace our journey but this time ignore the new cut and carry on up the River Waveney. But, as soon as hit the junction we plan to turn around and go down the River Yare i.e. around where The Berney Arms (good for lunch?) and then head back to base exploring  The Chet on the way.

So, apart form any general comments on the wisdom of our plan I would like to know if we need to worry about tides. (Previous experience has been mainly on canals) and in particular if we need top wait for the slack tide before we attempt to change from the Waveney to the the Yare. We have no plans to go onto Yarmouth or venture any further into Breydon Water than we need to to make the turn.

Thanks so much in advance for those taking the time to give advice.

John.

[YnysMon]

Low tide at Beccles on Thursday is forecast to be just before 11am, so if you are intending to go up to Geldeston is would be a good idea to try to get to Beccles then or early afternoon so that you can be sure of getting under Beccles Old Bridge (average clearance at high tide 6'6").  

You don't have to wait for the tide to turn, but it I find it does help to go with the tide. Saves fuel and is a lot quieter in terms of engine noise too!

I've copied a tide table for the week below. Tide table and bridge clearance details obtained from this website: https://www.mynorfolkbroadsboating.co.uk/ 

Welcome to the forum.

[Smoggy]

Forget the berney arms  as it's been shut years now, fishermans inn at burgh Castle is OK or carry on to reedham and try the ship.

[Mouldy]

Download the Aweigh app.  It’s available for Android and iOS and is free.  Has tide info, moorings, gps speedometer, electric hook up details and loads of other useful info.  There is currently work being carried out on the New Cut, causing it to be closed at various times.  It would be beneficial to check the Broads Authority website for up to date details of when it will be closed.  Obviously, you can go round, by continuing down The Yare to Breydon Water and turning up The Waveney, but it will add a couple of hours to you journey both ways.

If you’ve time, a trip into Norwich is great, but for me not to stay overnight.  Entering the city by river gives a very different view to the one you get by road.

Excellent pubs at Surlingham (The Ferry House) or Rockland St Mary (The New Inn), possibly as last night stopovers before heading back to the boatyard.

[grendel]

just a thought, but is the piling work on the new cut completed yet, there were some restrictions there that were supposed to go on for a few weeks.

as for the tides, if you are going against the tide one way eg down the waveney then you should have it with you the other, Broads boats can punch the tide (slowly sometimes) but it shouldnt give any real problems other than additional fuel used.

[grendel]

here is the updated Broads Authority notice, restrictions and closures on the new cut until the end of April.

https://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0029/419843/NTM-04-of-2022-River-Closure-and-width-restrictions-for-piling-works-at-Haddiscoe-Cut-Updated-12-April-2022.pdf

Notice is also given that between Friday 01 April 2022 and Thursday 14 April 2022, Haddiscoe Cut will be open but width restrictions will remain in place for the second phase of the works. Due to additional works required to those advertised above, a width restriction will remain in place between Friday 15 April and Sunday 24 April 2022. A further closure of Haddiscoe Cut will be in place between Monday 25 April and Friday 29 April 2022. The channel in Haddiscoe cut will open on Saturday 30 April although a width restriction will remain in place until Friday 6 May 2022.

[Mouldy]

https://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0029/419843/NTM-04-of-2022-River-Closure-and-width-restrictions-for-piling-works-at-Haddiscoe-Cut-Updated-12-April-2022.pdf

[grendel]

it looks like you may be lucky with your dates with just a width restriction in place for most of your proposed trip.

[Woodsie]

21 minutes ago, grendel said:

just a thought, but is the piling work on the new cut completed yet, there were some restrictions there that were supposed to go on for a few weeks.

as for the tides, if you are going against the tide one way eg down the Waveney then you should have it with you the other, Broads boats can punch the tide (slowly sometimes) but it shouldn't give any real problems other than additional fuel used.

Thanks Grendel, all very helpful.

[Woodsie]

1 hour ago, YnysMon said:

Low tide at Beccles on Thursday is forecast to be just before 11am, so if you are intending to go up to Geldeston is would be a good idea to try to get to Beccles then or early afternoon so that you can be sure of getting under Beccles Old Bridge (average clearance at high tide 6'6").  

You don't have to wait for the tide to turn, but it I find it does help to go with the tide. Saves fuel and is a lot quieter in terms of engine noise too!

I've copied a tide table for the week below. Tide table and bridge clearance details obtained from this website: https://www.mynorfolkbroadsboating.co.uk/ 

Welcome to the forum.

Thanks for this, very useful. I had found the site but missed that page somehow. I can work out the table now i.e. it tells me when low tide is so I know the hour before or after is when best to travel if I can. Can I work out which way the tide is going before or after low tide from this though. Sorry if I'm being dim.

[grendel]

although I have tried several times to time my arrival at the junction of the rivers, or the new cut to coincide with tide times, its never that simple, the tide times are never spot on to the minute correct, so I have always ended up punching tide one way or the other, at least for a few minutes

 

[Woodsie]

Cheers Grendel. That's reassuring. Its sounds like I'm going to have to go against the tide sometimes so I won't let it worry me too much. 

[YnysMon]

1 minute ago, Woodsie said:

Thanks for this, very useful. I had found the site but missed that page somehow. I can work out the table now i.e. it tells me when low tide is so I know the hour before or after is when best to travel if I can. Can I work out which way the tide is going before or after low tide from this though. Sorry if I'm being dim.

Once the time for low tide has passed the tide will normally start pushing up the river, so if you were on your way to Beccles or Norwich it would help you along. Similarly, once high tide has passed, the water will flow out to sea, so will help you along if you are travelling down the Yare/Waveney away from Beccles/Norwich. I say normally, as in places down the lower ends of the rivers (like Reedham) the tide still flows out for some time after low water.

We generally try to pass through the New Cut about half an hour or so after low water at Reedham/St Olaves. So, if travelling from Beccles, you get the benefit of the outgoing tide down the Waveney and then catch the incoming tide up the Yare.

As Grendel has pointed out, lots of people don't bother that much about the tides though. You'll still be able to make way against the tide.

[grendel]

before low tide it will be heading out toward the sea, after low tide it will be coming in from the sea. if you have to punch a tide, punching the incoming tide should be slightly less as you have the flow of the river with you, to counteract some of the incoming tide.

if you go to great Yarmouth it can get even more confusing as the tide can be still flowing out of the Bure, while its rising, there is a period called low slack (about an hour long0 after low tide where the crossing of Breydon has neither tide against you, this is while the Bure outflows as that lags behind the tide, to head up the bure (if you have plenty of headroom, - or air draft as its called) you should aim to get there just after the end of slack, then you will have a gentle push all the way up the bure. if you need maximum head room, then its best to get there at low water, before slack

 

[Woodsie]

I'm getting it now. Thank you both so much. If your about next week I owe you a beer.

[Smoggy]

And as a self confessed ditch crawler (canals) you will find a huge difference when it comes to mooring with the tide running, try and moor against the tide and it will be much easier and slower, if need be go past your intended spot and turn to moor into the tide (don't do this in front of a low bridge as you will be shoved through wether the boat fits or not), the boat will have far more control, mooring with the tide in reedham can turn it into a bowling alley as you clatter down a line of moored boats.

Check bridge height against boat height at st.olaves on the waveney too, sorry I don't know the height of the boat you are hiring.

[Mouldy]

The Aweigh app does give you a ‘live’ position overlaid on a map and shows whether the tide is rising or falling.  It’s not always accurate as the weather can impact the effect of the tide, however it goes give an indication.  It’s worthwhile downloading and trying imho.

[Woodsie]

Thanks I have the app ready on my phone and it sounds as if it will be useful.

[Woodsie]

38 minutes ago, Mouldy said:

The Aweigh app does give you a ‘live’ position overlaid on a map and shows whether the tide is rising or falling.  It’s not always accurate as the weather can impact the effect of the tide, however it goes give an indication.  It’s worthwhile downloading and trying imho.

 

1 hour ago, Smoggy said:

And as a self confessed ditch crawler (canals) you will find a huge difference when it comes to mooring with the tide running, try and moor against the tide and it will be much easier and slower, if need be go past your intended spot and turn to moor into the tide (don't do this in front of a low bridge as you will be shoved through wether the boat fits or not), the boat will have far more control, mooring with the tide in reedham can turn it into a bowling alley as you clatter down a line of moored boats.

Check bridge height against boat height at st.olaves on the waveney too, sorry I don't know the height of the boat you are hiring.

OK, thanks. I had read about the tide mooring bit but glad of the emphasis i.e. its bit of advice I should heed.,

[Broads01]

I can also recommend the Aweigh app. As others have suggested, whilst the tide information is a good guide, it is only a guide. At a given location it'll tell you "tide rising" or "tide falling" but I believe it works on the assumption the tide moves inwards and outwards at a uniform rate which isn't absolutely true in reality. On the southern rivers, you'll get to know whether the tide is with you or against you according to how much work the engine has to do to maintain progress. If you have some flexibility in timing and can time your movements with the tide then great but it not, you can make progress without, just using a little more fuel or moving a little slower.

[ZimbiIV]

If you are unsure which way the tide is going, just put the throttle into tickover.

If it feels like the brakes are on you are against the tide.

If you do not appear to be slowing you are with the tide.

paul

[annv]

Hi John if you are going to wild moor and there are many of those down south if mud anchoring on a broad for the wild life, do so at low tide then if you hit bottom you will always get off at high tide, enjoy your holiday break. John

[jeffbroadslover]

Hi John and welcome to the forum.

If I were you I would not worry too much about tides even though they do seem to run stronger down south. All you have to do is RELAX AND ENJOY IT !!!!!!!!!       The days will whizz past too quickly anyway.

Jeff