Fishing At Coltishall.

[Popeye]

1 hour ago, rightsaidfred said:

How many boats are untolled, cars untaxed, drivers with no license or insurance, anglers without a license, people who don't pay their council tax or rent etc etc a whole lot of letters to be written methinks, till someone is found guilty they are innocent and deserve the courtesy of being treated as such.

Fred

That's it, I give up! I have been doing it wrong all my life. I received a poxy education at a downright rough school, managed to get a few GCEs heaven knows how because the school was rubbish, got a steady job that I stuck with for many years, bought my own house and boat and paid all my taxes no matter what and it appears that all around me are living it up at my expense.

What a World we live in, honesty has no value anymore. 

[YnysMon]

57 minutes ago, Popeye said:

What a World we live in, honesty has no value anymore. 

I think we might be on a bounce back (hopefully). Anyone who has studied history will have noticed that each generation tends to turn their backs on what has gone before. The trouble is, most people don’t look back very far, so we seem to have forgotten the lessons that the post WW2 generation had learned. 

[Vaughan]

You may like to put the kettle on before reading this, as it is early morning on what promises to be a 40º day, and I feel like "waxing lyrical".

 

21 hours ago, Hylander said:

The great unwashed have to spoil everything. 

Without troubling to verify it on Google (as I don't spend all day with my face in a screen as some appear to think) I always thought the Great Unwashed was a term from the Indian Empire, which referred to those not of the Hindu faith, who had not ritually washed themselves in the Ganges.  I am not sure we can apply that to the Bure at Coltishall Green!  All the same I know what Hylander means and I have been guilty myself, of talking about the Great Heaving Public, as a generalisation.

16 hours ago, marshman said:

Get Vaughan to tell you what it was like in the early 70's when there were up to 3k hire boats on the system!!!!!

Marshman and I are wherrymen (among other things) and I am sure we both keep in mind the real origins of what we now call the Broads, when it was re-claimed from a marsh (by the Dutch) and made into a commercial navigation for the carrying of all the general cargo in wherries as well as other vessels.  The classic Norfolk reed barge has a history much longer than the wherry.  In the 1840s the railways came to Norfolk and steadily killed off the trade of the wherries, but they also brought the working classes (a definitive but not derogatory term) from the factories of London , the Midlands and the North, for their week's holiday on the coast at Gt Yarmouth.  From there, pleasure steamers took them up the rivers for the day and very soon, the Broads became a major holiday centre in its own right.  I have mentioned before that all the major boating centres here - except one - are beside an old railway station.

Let's also remember that Harry Blake's boating agency was founded in 1908. John Loynes, one of its founders, had already been in business in Wroxham and Norwich for a long time before that.  So the Broads has always acquired a rather "down market" image of fish and chips and shops selling captain's hats or pirate flags.  I well remember when some "expert" lady from the then new BA, announced in the EDP that the Broads were attracting "the wrong kind of customer" and should go more up market.  I well remember my dear friend Angie Sabberton, of Sabena Marine, writing a brilliantly scathing reply to that article!

I am quite certain that there are many of you on this forum who were introduced to the Broads as kids with their parents (or grandparents) on annual holiday by train, or as members of the many school parties and I hope you are proud of it.  Broadscot was one of them and he was never ashamed to admit it!  This has always been the "customer base" of Broads boating and please God, it always will be!  They may have misbehaved a bit over the years but they made the Broads into what we know and love today.

So what is different now, and what is the future?

The difference between now and the early 70s is that there is much less tourist revenue to maintain the Broads, since it went into decline in the 80s.  So if staycation tourists are coming here by road to get on the river for the day that can only be a good thing for all of us.  Yes they do pay a river toll for their paddle board, but the only place to stick a registration number would be on the seat of their swimming trunks!  How many of these young canoeists and paddle boarders will graduate to cruiser hiring, or ownership, as they get to love the place as we do?

As to Coltishall, well only about half of today's hire boats can get under Wroxham bridge, so it is a good place for other waterborne activities, in fairly shallow water with little current, easy access to banks for safety and access to many points by car.  I have suggested before that the river both above and below Horstead mill is a beautiful spot for the enjoyment of "paddling". Much safer than Wroxham or Horning!

 

Something that does bother me about the future, is that a river given over to paddle boards and canoes does not need dredging, weed cutting, bank maintenance or the provision of overnight moorings, pumpouts, electric points and all the other facilities.  So the BA can cheerfully carry on taking their river tolls, whilst allowing the old navigations to deteriorate and "fall into disuse".

They used to say you could sail a wherry across damp grass if there had been a good dew that morning.  I would hate to see the Broads get like that, after over 200 years history as a navigation.

[RumPunch]

46 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

They used to say you could sail a wherry across damp grass if there had been a good dew that morning.  I would hate to see the Broads get like that, after over 200 years history as a navigation.

Having been on Hickling this weekend, it nearly is

[Vaughan]

1 minute ago, RumPunch said:

Having been on Hickling this weekend, it nearly is

Yes, and why have all the various "responsible" authorities allowed it to get into such a state, we ask ourselves?

[Hylander]

Vaughan -  I must have inherited that expression from Mother who spent 5 years with Father in India during the 2nd World War.

 

[rightsaidfred]

8 hours ago, Popeye said:

That's it, I give up! I have been doing it wrong all my life. I received a poxy education at a downright rough school, managed to get a few GCEs heaven knows how because the school was rubbish, got a steady job that I stuck with for many years, bought my own house and boat and paid all my taxes no matter what and it appears that all around me are living it up at my expense.

What a World we live in, honesty has no value anymore. 

You obviously miss the point, there are a minority in every sector of life who abuse the rules,   we can either dwell on that or get on with life leave others to enjoy themselves and let the authorities sort out the rest.

Most of us can identify with your life and many myself included probably a lot more hardship that dosn`t mean we are in a bad place now, having grown up in the post war years we had nothing, many of us lived on hand downs, food was what you could get or afford, crime was common as was drugs but only reported locally, Teddy boys, Mods & Rockers were the equivalent of todays youth, I don`t regret growing up when I did but I wouldn`t want to impose it on todays generations most of whom are good decent  people trying to live a life in todays society with its own issues, live and let live has always been my mantra.

Fred

[TheQ]

6 hours ago, Vaughan said:

Yes, and why have all the various "responsible" authorities allowed it to get into such a state, we ask ourselves?

Because BA believe they only have to clear the navigational channels, not the broads..

So Black Horse Broad which is also clogged with weed this year, has no chance of being cleared at all because it's not an official navigational channel, it's an arrangement between the villagers of Horning and the Broad owner to keep it open for the summer months..

[Vaughan]

36 minutes ago, TheQ said:

Because BA believe they only have to clear the navigational channels, not the broads..

Exactly what I have been banging on about for a long time now.

If they don't HAVE to maintain it, by law, then sure enough, they won't.

 

[rightsaidfred]

3 hours ago, Vaughan said:

Exactly what I have been banging on about for a long time now.

If they don't HAVE to maintain it, by law, then sure enough, they won't.

 

I am afraid I am now about to be really contencious, firstly I have no issue with the sailing fraturnity or them holding regatas, Black Horse Broad is privately owned and as such is the responsibility of the owner which I believe is the same family that closed HGB to the public, Horning Sailing Club with consent from the Same owner cleared a lot of trees and shrub from the river bank down to the Broad to enhance sailing conditions and in the process placed notices restricting some of the wild moorings, this being the case if the weed is that big a problem why dosnt the owner and sailing club take remedial action instead of expecting the BA to do it after all they have managed to get funding for HGB.

Fred

 

[Cheesey69]

I don’t know about BA, but in my game, the highways, costs have not just shot up but shot up in multiples. 
From fuel to costs of steel. Type one and two hardcore material have doubled in price in a month. 
So the BA not only going to put up the toll, they are going to have to be very picky about what they do. 

[Mouldy]

45 minutes ago, Cheesey69 said:

So the BA not only going to put up the toll, they are going to have to be very picky about what they do. 

Hmmm!  Maybe maintaining navigation and quay heading should come before all of National Park signage that they seem to be able to afford at the expense of maintaining the rivers and facilities for the community they are supposed to serve.

[Popeye]

14 hours ago, RumPunch said:

Having been on Hickling this weekend, it nearly is

Looks like it will be for quite a while too, just seen the weed cutter going upstream on the Bure, probably to cut up at Coltishall where that grassy stuff is getting a bit thick.

[RumPunch]

12 hours ago, rightsaidfred said:

I am afraid I am now about to be really contencious, firstly I have no issue with the sailing fraturnity or them holding regatas, Black Horse Broad is privately owned and as such is the responsibility of the owner which I believe is the same family that closed HGB to the public, Horning Sailing Club with consent from the Same owner cleared a lot of trees and shrub from the river bank down to the Broad to enhance sailing conditions and in the process placed notices restricting some of the wild moorings, this being the case if the weed is that big a problem why dosnt the owner and sailing club take remedial action instead of expecting the BA to do it after all they have managed to get funding for HGB.

Fred

 

I can't, and won't, get drawn too far into the wheres and whys, partly because others are managing this via the proper channels, and partly becuse I am not fully up to speed on all the angles, but there are a huge raft of environmental issues around Hickling, from protected animals to protected weed.

[TheQ]

14 hours ago, rightsaidfred said:

I am afraid I am now about to be really contencious, firstly I have no issue with the sailing fraturnity or them holding regatas, Black Horse Broad is privately owned and as such is the responsibility of the owner which I believe is the same family that closed HGB to the public, Horning Sailing Club with consent from the Same owner cleared a lot of trees and shrub from the river bank down to the Broad to enhance sailing conditions and in the process placed notices restricting some of the wild moorings, this being the case if the weed is that big a problem why dosnt the owner and sailing club take remedial action instead of expecting the BA to do it after all they have managed to get funding for HGB.

Fred

 

Horning Sailing club NEVER placed the no mooring signs on the river bank... That was the landowner to stop himself being sued by anyone being tripped up / falling down a hole etc.. it is very rough in there..

The river bank used to be cleared by HSC, but the responsibility for that section of river bank clearing has now been taken over by BA and from my point of view aren't as good doing it as the Sailing club was. I suspect all you'll see soon is a bank of trees like further up the river..

The Sailing club certainly does not have the resources to clear that broad, and doesn't have the permits. I suspect the club would need Permits from BA, the Environment agency, and probably Natural England. All no doubt, wanting vast amounts of money the club doesn't have.

[rightsaidfred]

4 hours ago, TheQ said:

Horning Sailing club NEVER placed the no mooring signs on the river bank... That was the landowner to stop himself being sued by anyone being tripped up / falling down a hole etc.. it is very rough in there..

The river bank used to be cleared by HSC, but the responsibility for that section of river bank clearing has now been taken over by BA and from my point of view aren't as good doing it as the Sailing club was. I suspect all you'll see soon is a bank of trees like further up the river..

The Sailing club certainly does not have the resources to clear that broad, and doesn't have the permits. I suspect the club would need Permits from BA, the Environment agency, and probably Natural England. All no doubt, wanting vast amounts of money the club doesn't have.

I accept that the sailing club's involvement has changed and wasnt suggesting they should pay that is the owners responsibility, given their local influence and that they obtained licences that permit the destruction of valuable spawning grounds on HGB that shouldn't be a problem, as the general public has limited access and the main beneficiaries from weed clearing would be the sailing club who have worked with the owners in the past that is why I mentioned them.

I dont expect my local authority to cut my lawn so why should wealthy landowners expect the BA to clear their property.

Fred

 

[TheQ]

The land owner receives no benefit from the broad being open, in fact in 1949 tried  to close the broad.

 The sailing club uses the broad for racing   for 7 hours on each of 10 days a year, plus about 4 hours on about 20 days for the sailing school. Total 150 hours.

The public uses the broad via the Rivers for which BA has authority, uses the broad for 183 days a year. 4293 hours a year, Exactly why should the sailing club fund this ?

We don't have the money, the landowner would be happy closing it. If you want access to the broad then the only group that could pay is the total tax payers of the broads.

[grounded]

I have had a couple of days fishing at Coltishall common durning our Broads trip, which finishes tomorrow. The only problems i had to contend with were floating cut weed and bottom growing uncut weed. The roach i caught were stunning in their beauty and condition, with a couple being over 500gms. No complaints from me.

And, in my humble opinion, the best pub food on the Northern Broads bei g served at the Rising Sun, what is not to love about the river at Coltishall?

Chris

[Vaughan]

2 hours ago, TheQ said:

The land owner receives no benefit from the broad being open, in fact in 1949 tried  to close the broad.

My father was one of the "band of men", all boat hirers, involved in the forced entry to Black Horse Broad, led by Herbert Woods in 1949.  It was re-opened on the basis that it was officially tidal, so the landowner didn't own the water in it.

Weed has become a problem everywhere now that the water quality has improved so much.  In the 50s and 60s the water was a sickly green colour, so no weed.

Boatyards had a lot of influence in those days and Blakes paid for a great deal of maintenance to navigations, including the lease of Malthouse Broad and the staithe, or that would have been shut too. They leased Cockshoot Broad and the dyke until it was closed for mud pumping in the 60s.  This was a great success but for some political reason it was never re-opened to navigation.

So who looks after these places, now that hire boats no longer hold so much "sway"?  The private owners?  Where is the Broads Society, in all this?  I ask especially, as Black Horse Broad has a staithe, just beside where the pub used to be, and which was identified on this forum by Timbo and I from old maps a few years ago.  If an association such as the Broads Society had the clout to get that staithe officially recognised and opened to the public, then the waterway onto the broad would also be re-classified as a navigation.

When I was on the committee of the Broads Society with Roy Kemp, this is exactly what we were successfully involved in.

[TheQ]

Just looked at this.. yep I agree,  a clip from the 1885 map..

Not that it matters, I believe the BA's remit is to keep the navigation as it was when they took over.. Otherwise we could call to sail up Muck fleet and a few other places that used to be accessible.

[TheQ]

Just checked on NLS maps, the Staithe was still shown up to the 1951 map which is as recent as NLS maps go