Fuel Usage

[rightsaidfred]

This is a hard one because there are so many variables, on my own usage this year at current prices I think that would account for around  the whole of this years cruising for me so far around 2 1/2 months  all added up, something definitely doesn't sound right.

Fred

[rightsaidfred]

Ps that amount would require twice my fuel tanks capacity on a 38ft boat.

Fred

[TFrench89]

On a similar subject... At the start of our latest fortnight's holiday we were told by the boatyard that we'd need to refuel midway through. I hope he's wrong as we've never had to do that previously. 

[Mouldy]

2 hours ago, TFrench89 said:

On a similar subject... At the start of our latest fortnight's holiday we were told by the boatyard that we'd need to refuel midway through. I hope he's wrong as we've never had to do that previously. 

To be honest, with the pricing I’d fuel at some hire yards, you may be better off refuelling somewhere like Boulters, than at the home yards prices.  Better that than running out of fuel half way across Breydon.

We own an ex hire boat and the fuel tank is quite small, less than 100 litres.  It’s always possible that you have a small tank, especially if the boat you’re on is one that was originally built for the private market.

[SwanR]

Maybe this is where the all inclusive hire prices start to come into their own.

[BrundallNavy]

7 minutes ago, SwanR said:

Maybe this is where the all inclusive hire prices start to come into their own.

Not really, if it costs a £100 to fill the tank they just charge a £100 on the price if you use more you have to pay to fill it up again if you use less than a tank they win as you don’t get a refund. 

[Mouldy]

12 minutes ago, SwanR said:

Maybe this is where the all inclusive hire prices start to come into their own.

If you cruise a lot, they may well do, but if you just potter about, you’ll almost inevitably be paying for fuel you don’t use.  I cannot imagine that the fuel charge in the all inclusive prices, is in favour of the majority of hirers.  It just wouldn’t be good business sense, surely.

[SwanR]

But at least you're not going to be stung with an additional charge that you're not expecting when you get back to the yard. You've got your tank of fuel included in the price.

[Mouldy]

1 minute ago, SwanR said:

But at least you're not going to be stung with an additional charge that you're not expecting when you get back to the yard. You've got your tank of fuel included in the price.

Maybe so, but let’s say that you just chug round the northern rivers and use 40 litres, but the deposit built into the inclusive holiday cost is based on an average usage of 100 litres.  Would you like to think that for convenience you’ve paid over £100 for nothing?

I like to pay for what I’ve used and certainly wouldn’t entertain all inclusive pricing.  We were on Moonlight Shadow for a week in early May, before her operating base was changed.  We cruised from Brundall, across Breydon, The Thurne to Potter, The Ant to Dilham, The Bure to Hoveton and on the way back to Brundall, went down The Chet to Loddon.  Our fuel usage was 64 litres.  Careful use of tides and the throttle pays dividends.
 

[Meantime]

The yard isn't going to lose money by doing all inclusive. They will simply work out what the average hire boat uses over the course of the season and add that to your holiday cost. If you use less in a week than the average hire boat user, you will have lost out and be subsidising the boy racers who use more than the average hire boat user!!

Think I would rather pay for what I actually use.

[Broads01]

I liked having all inclusive fuel on my recent hire but I look upon it as a luxury and one for which Ferry Marina at least add a disproportionate amount on to the hire charge for.

On the subject of a £400 charge for the cruising mentioned it's absolutely miles over the top. My guess is, as you suggested, the boat wasn't refuelled before you took it over. This happened to me some years ago where I was refuelling the boat half way through a fortnight's cruise only to find that the tank was almost empty. The yard realised their mistake and compensated me appropriately. The boat had been returned early by the previous crew and this had led to refuelling being forgotten. On a separate occasion with a different yard, the toilet was full after a day and a half and they admitted the boat hadn't been pumped out!

The biggest fuel bill I've had for week on the Broads was after a fairly energetic week in April this year which at £1.75 per litre totalled £156. Even on the Caledonian Canal last year, with a 215 bhp engine and no speed limit on the lochs, the bill was a respectable £204.

[CeePee1952]

We received our "pre-arrival" email from HW last week.  It gave us the gate code to enter the car park when we arrive and the usual copies of the T&C's and skippers manual.  It also stated that the current price of fuel at the time of sending the email was £1.75p per litre and that the boat is hired out with a full tank of fuel which is normally enough for two weeks of cruising.  I will check to make sure we have a full tank prior to leaving the boat yard!  As an aside, last year we had a bigger boat and cruised virtually most of the northern broads for a week. Fuel deposit was £175.  On returning to the yard and due to the current COVID restrictions in place at the time, we were instructed to vacate the boat and that the fuel usage would be worked out in our absence and we would be notified within a few days of the outcome.  To our surprise we received a refund of well over a £100!! Ok - so weather conditions were ideal for that week, fuel cost was cheaper (I think!) then and we didn't charge about and used the tides as much as possible.  We expect to use more fuel this year as we are going down to the southern broads but I certainly don't envisage using any where near a full tank of fuel!!

Chris

[RS2021]

1 hour ago, Meantime said:

The yard isn't going to lose money by doing all inclusive. They will simply work out what the average hire boat uses over the course of the season and add that to your holiday cost. If you use less in a week than the average hire boat user, you will have lost out and be subsidising the boy racers who use more than the average hire boat user!!

Think I would rather pay for what I actually use.

Fuel prices have risen massively since yards set their prices. I'm not aware of any introducing fuel surcharges, so that gives you an idea of how much profit is in 'all inclusive' pricing.

Unless of course yards we're able to buy and store a season's worth of fuel in advance.

[andyg]

3 minutes ago, RS2021 said:

Fuel prices have risen massively since yards set their prices. I'm not aware of any introducing fuel surcharges, so that gives you an idea of how much profit is in 'all inclusive' pricing.

Unless of course yards we're able to buy and store a season's worth of fuel in advance.

Spot on...

[andyg]

It's an odd one this, of course mistakes happen. But if the tank hadn't been re fueled from its previous hire, then surely it would of had an effect on the previous crew fuel refund. I'm sure yards keep records of fuel used etc. It may be worth calling them and ask the to investigate.

[dnks34]

Many years ago at the end of a weeks hire on the Southern Broads I just happened to be in the yard office when another customer was complaining about the extra cost of their fuel and when they departed the opinion seemed to be that either the hirers or another party had removed some from the tank as there was no possible way their boat was not fully refuelled for the start of the hire.  I was a bit dubious! 

not that i am at all suggesting thats what happened here. 

[Onthewater]

1 hour ago, CeePee1952 said:

We received our "pre-arrival" email from HW last week.  It gave us the gate code to enter the car park when we arrive and the usual copies of the T&C's and skippers manual.  It also stated that the current price of fuel at the time of sending the email was £1.75p per litre and that the boat is hired out with a full tank of fuel which is normally enough for two weeks of cruising.  I will check to make sure we have a full tank prior to leaving the boat yard!  As an aside, last year we had a bigger boat and cruised virtually most of the northern broads for a week. Fuel deposit was £175.  On returning to the yard and due to the current COVID restrictions in place at the time, we were instructed to vacate the boat and that the fuel usage would be worked out in our absence and we would be notified within a few days of the outcome.  To our surprise we received a refund of well over a £100!! Ok - so weather conditions were ideal for that week, fuel cost was cheaper (I think!) then and we didn't charge about and used the tides as much as possible.  We expect to use more fuel this year as we are going down to the southern broads but I certainly don't envisage using any where near a full tank of fuel!!

Chris

That’s exactly my point. So you

used approximately £75 fuel over the course of a week. So how on earth could you use 5 times that amount over the same period? Not even nearly possible… I’m no fool and know how boars and water ways work but this is ridiculous, obviously I’ve discussed this with the boat yard and they’re digging their heels in claiming all sort of things. I’d forgotten we even had to pump out the toilets 5 days in so not even sure if that’s normal usage or not? Didn’t have to do that last year either… 

[Broads01]

Even with fuel prices as they currently are, is it physically possible for the average hire boat (if there is such a thing) to hold £400 of diesel?

[Mouldy]

16 minutes ago, Onthewater said:

That’s exactly my point. So you

used approximately £75 fuel over the course of a week. So how on earth could you use 5 times that amount over the same period? Not even nearly possible… I’m no fool and know how boars and water ways work but this is ridiculous, obviously I’ve discussed this with the boat yard and they’re digging their heels in claiming all sort of things. I’d forgotten we even had to pump out the toilets 5 days in so not even sure if that’s normal usage or not? Didn’t have to do that last year either… 

Did the boat have an electric freshwater flush loo?  Was it a new boat?  It was much easier to control how much water was used to flush with the old ‘thunderbox’ style toilets, or manual pump flush type.

5 minutes ago, Broads01 said:

Even with fuel prices as they currently are, is it physically possible for the average hire boat (if there is such a thing) to hold £400 of diesel?

If the fuel was charged at £2 per litre, that’s only about 44 gallons.  I wouldn’t be surprised to see some larger craft fitted with a tank that size.

[JawsOrca]

Our boats a litre an hour. Do you know where you went? 

[dnks34]

2 minutes ago, JawsOrca said:

Our boats a litre an hour. Do you know where you went? 

The moon and back judging by the alleged fuel consumption 😂

[Onthewater]

2 minutes ago, JawsOrca said:

Our boats a litre an hour. Do you know where you went? 

Indeed north to south 150 miles over 31 hours of usage. Charged for 212 litres… 

[andyg]

Slight drift here, the loos on these modern boat do seem to need pumping out way more then I've ever known. We had broadsman over a 3 day weekend, with 5 adults onboard. We used the loos in pubs when we could. The waste tank was showing full on return on the Monday morning. No way would that last a week with the max of 8 onboard. The amount of times I've heard engineers say ignore the gauges there faulty. 

[JawsOrca]

6 minutes ago, Onthewater said:

Indeed north to south 150 miles over 31 hours of usage. Charged for 212 litres… 

Yeah that's rubbish, our old Broom with 2x6litre engines wouldn't even do that, certainly on tick over. I'd suggest you pass the yard a link to this forum and get them to look again. Trading standards is probably worth a look too. 

[kpnut]

A lot of folk seem to calculate fuel usage on their own boats in litres per hour,

But if it’s any help, my Horizon 35 (1979) with a bmc 1.5 engine has done on average 2.1 miles per litre over the past year and a half, including a lot of use in the winter with the diesel heater. So nearer average 2.4 miles per litre if I remember right in the summer with no heater on. I’ve recorded it each journey and also sometimes on my holiday blog, springers retreat. 
I can send you more detailed recordings, including exactly where I went each time, if you need them for your discussion with the yard. Let me know by pm (message) if you want them.