The Raw Water Off, Through Hull Closed, Run Engine Method....

[Cheesey69]

Hi,

Caught unawares by this cold snap, I had only used the above method of "winterising" the boat before leaving last time in the belief I could be back in time in case of anything serious comes along......Forgot about sickness that could prevent that, another story.

So when i did make it aboard I found that anything below the water line still water and, this is the point, a pipe that runs from the pump to hydraulic cooler frozen solid as well as its return into the heat exchanger.

And as a bonus, the raw water pump frozen solid so I guess a little backflow crept in.

and for a brucie bonus, I never drained the water system so that's solid as well,

And now to the point.

Point proven that just running the engine with the valves shut does not empty the system. The pump can't pump air so by poking around it justs empties the pipe upto the pump and anything in the exhaust.

It may be time consuming and expensive but when winter comes im always going to flush with anti freeze mix.

and im always going to drain down the water after october.

could be expensive come the thaw  

[MargeandParge]

Hope all is OK for you.

 Kindest Regards Marge and Parge 

[SteveO]

We only just made it with ours the Monday before the really cold stuff arrived.  I hope nothing is damaged as a result of this. In my view it is always best to flush with anti-freeze, even though we have tube heaters on a thermostat as well. 

[ExSurveyor]

The problem I have is I can't add antifreeze to the exhaust system as there is no weed filter fitted. I have to rely on heaters, could be expensive this year.

I have fitted a drain off point at the lowest point of the domestic water system, this and all taps are left open. The shower sump and pump have antifreeze added. Other than that it is fingers crossed.

I will pack a few spares and bits of pipe and a spare pump as the next visit is the day after Boxing day and most shops will be closed.

[Vaughan]

11 hours ago, Cheesey69 said:

So when i did make it aboard I found that anything below the water line still water and, this is the point, a pipe that runs from the pump to hydraulic cooler frozen solid as well as its return into the heat exchanger.

This is very bad luck and I sympathise! By chance, I only got our boat winterised the other day, before Stalham froze over.

Nothing wrong with draining off the raw water system and this is what I always used to do.  The hydraulic cooler has a drain plug with a square head, on the side at the bottom.  You may also need to loosen the Jubilee clip on the pipe on top, to let air in when you drain.  The heat exchanger also has a drain plug but beware - this is for the engine water, not the raw water.  To drain the heat exchanger tube stack, simply take the impeller out of the raw water pump, which is recommended anyway, in winter.  Be careful of loosening Jubilee clips around the heat exchanger as you may get the wrong one, and lose antifreeze from the engine. You may also want to drain the gearbox oil cooler, by loosening the pipes.

Too late for this year I am afraid, but maybe a tip for the future. 

Edited to add : Just thought, in your case you don't have a gearbox oil cooler, as you don't have a gearbox!

Edited December 17, 2022 by Vaughan
thought added

[Cheesey69]

I suppose my point was I’ve seen owners shut off through hulls, start the engine and wait until water stops coming out from exhaust and call it done. 
as I’ve found out, and it has been pointed out, that anything from the pump onwards will be full of water still because the pump can’t pump air. 
I watched an owner do that last year. 
False sense of security. 
Now I’m going to rig up a tank that I can connect to the pump intake full of antifreeze mix so I can still use the boat in winter and quickly rewinterise it again 

[annv]

Hi Cheesey How do you stop weed from blocking your intake? a weed filter housing connected to hull valve is a good thing to have and gives a access point in which to flush the raw water side with antifreeze and turn off/isolate river water from inertia of boat. John

[Cheesey69]

1 hour ago, annv said:

Hi Cheesey How do you stop weed from blocking your intake? a weed filter housing connected to hull valve is a good thing to have and gives a access point in which to flush the raw water side with antifreeze and turn off/isolate river water from inertia of boat. John

Hi annv you have guided me before. 
it’s about positioning and where can you put the weed filter. 
I have a rear engined flattie, a Bermuda 34

it has 2 raw water intakes, one under the stairs and one on the left side both feed into a weed filter on the same level as the engine barer near the crank shaft end. Single pipe up to the pump then down again to the bilge and back to the stair end to the hydraulic cooler then back to the pump end into the heat exchanger. 
To flush the system it takes a lot but the main problem is that you have to pour it in while engine is running from at least 3 feet up or risk losing something in the spinning bits. 
so the question is, is there any hard and fast rules as to where the filter can be? How high or low, even how far?

[Smoggy]

My weed filters are both above water line although it's a fairly short run from seacocks and pumps, with the filter high you have to prime with the valve closed when empty but during normal use no different, chuck in some floating plastic balls and you can see the water level in the filter through the lid at a glance.

Luckily I have room to stand in front of my engines and pour anti-freeze mix in while they run and can reach the key from there so can shut off once the filter bowl empties, could shut them off at the injector pump if needed.

I hope you havn't split anything with your freeze up, the method you used was never going to do the job.

[BroadAmbition]

Reading the above posts - Thank goodness for a wetshed with 240v and two inboard tube heaters

Griff

[annv]

Hi Cheesey I had the impression that you had no weed filter, as you have have thought that if you turn of the hull fitting then remove filter top pore in a mixture of antifreeze with engine running (a length of hose with a funnel pushed in the end) 1/2  gallon should be enough then when no water is coming from the exhaust switch of then pore a neat mixture in weed housing this will percolate down the hoses. difficult to advise when unable to see your installation so just a idea that might work for you. John

[Smoggy]

But use the non-toxic anti-freeze not the regular car stuff, it's lethal in the river.

[MargeandParge]

Hi cheesey 69

We hope no harm has come to any of your cooling system 

A tip for the future if you have a calorifier and you drain your domestic system down and want to run the boat without re filling it leave the hot taps open as the air in the hot tank will expand and have no were to go.

You should obviously leave the taps open over winter anyway.

Regards Marge and Parge 

[annv]

Hi Griff what happens if the electric goes of?. John

[BroadAmbition]

Hi Griff what happens if the electric goes of?. John

We switch it back on!

Joking aside if the elec does go off then our onboard alarm system sends us a txt informing us, it does the same when power is restored too.  To date since 'B.A' became a wetshed dweller back in 2007 the power has never been off for very long and then rarely.  There are some boats in there that don't have tube heaters fitted and don't do any real winterising other than opening the taps and have had no issues

Griff

[rightsaidfred]

While I sympathise with Cheesy and hope any damage is limited I think there is no one size fits all but is very much dependant on boat style, having a centre cockpit boat that I use all year round I have never winterised in the last 20 odd years including some severe winters where I have been frozen in for several weeks with no shore power, the only problem I experienced was when I was unable to remove the shower heads prior to it freezing up.

Fred

 

[Cheesey69]

3 hours ago, rightsaidfred said:

While I sympathise with Cheesy and hope any damage is limited I think there is no one size fits all but is very much dependant on boat style, having a centre cockpit boat that I use all year round I have never winterised in the last 20 odd years including some severe winters where I have been frozen in for several weeks with no shore power, the only problem I experienced was when I was unable to remove the shower heads prior to it freezing up.

Fred

 

Spot on. 
The path of the raw water pipes took them out of the warmer zone near or at the water level and near the skin of the hull. 
The fresh water pipes is the same. 
so with that knowledge I’m going to lag the pipes that feed the cooler that’s out of the warm zone then move  weed filter to a more accessible place

[PaulN]

Like so many, I have ben at home and worrying about the boat which I haven't seen since the end of October, hope to get down there once Christmas and New Year is over. 

When I left the boat, I did what I thought would be best and hope that's all OK, any expert advice if I missed anything will be appreciated. Carried out the following:

Turned off raw water inlet valves 2No. as I have 2 interconnected weed filters. Ran engine pouring in the pink antifreeze mix into one of the weed filters, until my wife called that the exhaust water was 'running pink', the quickly stopped engine then topped up antifreeze.

Diesel tank Full.

Water tank as empty as pump could get it. Taps opened. Shower head hose unscrewed from bottom of mixer valve with tap open to drain valve.

A bit of antifreeze in outlets to shower tray, toilet, basin and sink.

3 tubular heaters connected to shore power via thermostat set to come on if temperature drops to 3 degrees C. One heater in main saloon with seat backrest removed to expose water tank. Engine cover removed (mid engine shaft drive) with one heater adjacent to engine and the 3rd in the 'heads'. 

Hope that should be ok and that all be well when I get there. Not sure what else boat yards do if you pay for professional winterising. 

[Smoggy]

Sounds like you should be fine.

[Cheesey69]

Just posting an update...

First, hats off to those old hands who explained that the cold must be something special or very long before major problems arise. Particularly around the sea cocks freezing solid.

Well all of my fresh water pumps are below the water line (one taps, toilet and shower) all survived and so did all feeds to the taps. Again, most of the runs are below the water line and the only the feeds above this line froze. I'm guessing the water tank itself froze.

Shower pump is also in the land of the living.

In the engine compartment, again every raw water pipe above the water froze solid, including the raw water pump but not the filter which is right down and none of the through hulls. 

The engine started fine and ran well. I cant help thinking thanks to Ricko's use of wire reinforced plastic pipe nothing burst. My last vessel had the more cheaper pipe.

This time with the aid of a large diameter pipe and bucket, syphon and a thumb over the end of the pipe and me shouting instructions to the wife. The system is now filled with anti freeze.

Lessons learnt.

I'm going to insolate pipes that rise above the water line as a belt and braces approach.

From October, I'm going to leave the fresh water tanks empty and taps open.

From October, I'm going to flush anti freeze through. I've got 25 litres made up and it really takes no time.

I'm going to silicon grease the water filter threads and rubber. It really made opening the lid a lot easier at full reach.

I'm going to shut the through Hulls when i leave the boat. I used to do that when I owned a sea going vessel

 

[MargeandParge]

Very pleased to hear your news 

Kindest Regards Marge and Parge 

[Smoggy]

I always shut the seacocks when leaving the boat even in summer, it's good practice, as for thanking richos for the wire reinforced hose, if it's between seacock and raw water pump  it's vital otherwise they would collapse as it's a suction pipe.

Glad all is good.