Domestic Cookers - A Heads Up.

[floydraser]

It may not happen often but here's someting to beware of if you need to buy a new cooker.

With the best will in the World Hotpoint Cannon have tried to update their cookers to fit in with modern ideas of saving gas/climate change etc. but it's faltered slightly. We had an old Cannon cooker for donkey's years until it failed in 2022. As we were approaching retirement we thought we would have a decent new one as it would (should!) be our last. So we replaced it with the updated Cannon model which replaced ours, in November 2022. Next Sunday 24.01.2024 Curry's are delivering a new Beko cooker and our "new" one has been written off by curry's and Cannon as scrap! And I mean scrap; I am free to do what I want with it.

Luckily we had the 5 year careplan as it packed up after 13 months so we have had all but £15 of all our money back including the delivery and fitting charges. In the Ts and Cs it says if they can't repair it we get a replacement. The replacement is an e-gift card for the value.

The problem is with the new electronic flame failure device, or gas safe device. It's a bit like the eco function of a car where the engine stops and restarts automatically at junctions etc. When you turn on the main oven there is no spring to overcome, you don't have to press the **** in, just twist. A light comes on and there's a clicking to light the gas. When the oven get's to temperature it just switches off completely until it cools, then re-lights automatically all through the cooking cycle. 

But it doesn't. After a while they fail and your cooking stops part way through. It's either bad design or they haven't tested the system enough before putting it out on the market.

When the engineer came out he went straight to the problem and told us what it was, then said they would order the parts. After 7 days I rang and they said it would be written off.

I understand it's a common problem with Hotpoint Cannon models and some Rangemaster models. Our new Beko is conventional!

When I went back to Curry's to buy the new one I asked if it had an electronic flame failure device, he looked blank! So much for their adverts where girls have beards of wisdom and they all eat the instruction manuals! Maybe I should have asked him in Japanese! 

[Bikertov]

Unfortunately, this is a problem with many appliances (and cars etc) these days.

A small part, often badly designed or cheaply made, and when it fails it is not economically viable to repair.

2 examples I have suffered:

 - We put in a new boiler (in fact a totally new heating system) at home when we renovated. Within 5 years, the boiler had failed for the second time, and I was told is was not worth repairing, so had to get a new boiler fitted.

- When I bought my car, an Audi convertible that was 4 years old from a main dealer, the hydraulic roof pump failed just before I took delivery of it. It 'cost' the dealer over £1000 to replace the pump. Within 2 years, it was failing again. Turns out it is a common fault, the brushes on the motor that cost pennies are cheaply made and prone to failure. But rather than a £1000+ repair again, I found someone on the web that replaced the brushes with better quality ones for about £60. Because Audi won't go down to that level of repair - they only swap out main units.

So much for the environment and saving the planet, that so many things a poorly designed so they can't be easily or cheaply repaired, and end up in landfill well before their time.

[floydraser]

I can't remember exactly but I think it was the bloke who delivered our first "new" cooker in November 2022 who commented on our old conventional boiler. He recommended that I should change it if not for a combi, for a new conventional type with electronic ignition instead of a pilot light, to save gas. Glad I didn't in light of the above but if I did I think we worked out that I would have live another 50 years to be in profit!

[Vaughan]

36 minutes ago, Bikertov said:

So much for the environment and saving the planet, that so many things a poorly designed so they can't be easily or cheaply repaired, and end up in landfill well before their time.

I think it used to be called "planned obscellence".

[Mouldy]

28 minutes ago, Bikertov said:

Unfortunately, this is a problem with many appliances (and cars etc) these days.

A small part, often badly designed or cheaply made, and when it fails it is not economically viable to repair.

2 examples I have suffered:

 - We put in a new boiler (in fact a totally new heating system) at home when we renovated. Within 5 years, the boiler had failed for the second time, and I was told is was not worth repairing, so had to get a new boiler fitted.

- When I bought my car, an Audi convertible that was 4 years old from a main dealer, the hydraulic roof pump failed just before I took delivery of it. It 'cost' the dealer over £1000 to replace the pump. Within 2 years, it was failing again. Turns out it is a common fault, the brushes on the motor that cost pennies are cheaply made and prone to failure. But rather than a £1000+ repair again, I found someone on the web that replaced the brushes with better quality ones for about £60. Because Audi won't go down to that level of repair - they only swap out main units.

So much for the environment and saving the planet, that so many things a poorly designed so they can't be easily or cheaply repaired, and end up in landfill well before their time.

Have to agree with what you say about cars.  My last ŠKODA, a 2 litre petrol vRS, had an issue at around 60k miles with the inlet manifold, which was made of plastic.  It had worn around the fuel butterflies, consequently not functioning correctly, necessitating a repair costing in excess of £800 in 2015.

About three weeks after buying my current car, some kind person left me with a broken radiator grill in a car park, whilst it was parked and unattended.  Needless to say, I was not best pleased, but grateful that the damage appeared relatively minor.  I contacted my local dealer to order a new grill, to be told that they were only supplied with the front bumper, cost including painting but not fitting, was over £900 (in 2017).  Fortunately, I managed to get a grill from eBay and a friend who owns a body shop in Northampton took the bumper off (no mean feat in itself), carefully cut away the plastic welds holding the grill to the bumper and re-plastic weld the new one in place, total cost to me was £250.

This isn’t a new thing though.  Back in the 1990’s, I had a Ford Sierra Sapphire.  At around three years old the rear silencer developed  a hole.  I tried the usual exhaust replacement specialists and was told that at the time, they weren’t available as aftermarket parts and had to be supplied by Ford.  Off to the local Ford agents I went, but was horrified to be told that I’d need to replace the whole system, from the manifold back - the reason was that the original exhaust was manufactured in one piece and fitted before the rear axle was at the factory, so it was impossible just to replace the rear section.  Bearing in mind that it was a Ford, it wasn’t cheap either.  I seem to recall that I was relieved of around £130 for the exhaust, which was a fair chunk of money in the early 90’s (to me).

 

[dom]

22 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

I think it used to be called "planned obscellence".

Also known as a "Sony timer" in some circles.

Supposedly, it's an urban legend, but I used to sell a lot of Sony electronic products and they had a remarkable ability to fail shortly after the warranty ran out.

[dom]

16 minutes ago, Mouldy said:

was horrified to be told that I’d need to replace the whole system, from the manifold back - the reason was that the original exhaust was manufactured in one piece and fitted before the rear axle was at the factory, so it was impossible just to replace the rear section.  Bearing in mind that it was a Ford, it wasn’t cheap either.  I seem to recall that I was relieved of around £130 for the exhaust, which was a fair chunk of money in the early 90’s (to me).

I can't remember exactly which model it was, but one of Audi's first Quattro models fitted with a catalytic converter had similar issues. The exhaust itself was staggeringly expensive due to the new catalyst and you had to drop half the drive train to change it. One of my customers at the time had one and I seem to recall the total bill after labour was somewhere in the region of £9k or so - which probably equated to 2/3rds of the cost of a Golf GTi at the time. I suspect a very lucrative market in aftermarket alternatives quickly developed!

[MauriceMynah]

I understand some Chinese items are surprisingly well made and reliable. Further, they don't carry the high prices the better known versions have. 

😀

[YnysMon]

Our current cooker and our previous one have been gas hob and electric fan oven plus top oven/grill. Best of both worlds, though a tad more expensive than single fuel options. Previous one (John Lewis own brand)  lasted quite a long time, so I have no complaints.  Current one is an AEG which I’m very happy with. 

[grendel]

4 hours ago, Vaughan said:

I think it used to be called "planned obscellence".

nowadays its more unplanned incompetence

[floydraser]

I made a Youtube video about the problem and a guy has just commented: He had a cooker of the same model delivered yesterday and having seen my video, noticed a slight difference to the way the oven lights. He rang Hotpoint who told him that since August 2023 they have changed the gas safe device to the conventional type!

So why not offer me the new model then? 

[grendel]

we once bought a hotpoint washer dryer - this was when they first came out, we had all sorts of issues with it, because they had not engineered the circuit board correctly and the contacts kept corroding- we must have had about 4 replacement circuit boards- each was an upgrade from the last- eg one had gold plated contacts, eventually they raised the circuit board voltage to try and overcome the issue. never really did though.

[dom]

My Beko fridge, which I bought in 2005 is still going strong (touch wood!).

My White Knight tumble dryer bought at the same time recenty failed aged about 17 years, so I replaced it with a Beko. It's an absolutely brilliant machine, despite being one of the cheapest on the market.

I also bought a new washing machine recently. It's a Hoover which I chose as it had control from a mobile app. The app has never worked, the program control is intermittent and I suspect the drum bearings aren't going to last much longer. It's barely out of warranty.

I actually wonder if "budget" brands work harder to ensure their products last, as they've not got an established reputation to rely upon.

 

[Smoggy]

We went for an Ebac washing maching when the bearings gave out on our previous one as the drum was a sealed unit, I did pull it apart with a veiw to converting the drum to a screwed setup but we had the new one by then so gave up, when I got apart I spotted that even the heater element came out through the inside of the drum so not replaceble as a £10 item it had to be a £450 drum.

Ebac are rebuildable with spares held, built in UK with a high percentage of components made in the UK so hopefully we'll have it for a long time.

[grendel]

we bought a third hand miele washing machine it was the industrial model, (the instructions were there on how to fit the coin meter) we bought it from a person who had worked at a care home, she bought it from the care home where it had been used almost constantly for many years, we used it for about another 8 years until we were given a brand new machine from my ex's great uncles house. then we finally got rid of the miele, though by then it was in sore need of new bearings (i am sure that if I had replaced the bearings it would still be being used to date.)

[Smoggy]

On an old zanussi washer we had I'd changed 2x sets of bearings and it had 3 wires soldered on top of the main circuit board across corroded tracks before we finally called it a day, I don't like chucking stuff away.