Liveaboard Friendly ( Official Or Unoffical) Marinas/yard Norfolk

[Natasha52]

Hi There. I've just brought a boat, currently hard standing on a yard in the broads. I am looking for somewhere to berth her  in Noforlk,where I can stay on her for long periods of time. I have a offshore base but want to be on her 12 days in every 14. I need electric hook up, water as a min. Laundry and toilets a bonus. Any ideas ?

[ExSurveyor]

Welcome  to the forum.

If you are looking for the southern broads then Brundall Gardens Marina at Brundall would suit you.

All the facilities you need and WiFi.

If you have another base and leave the boat occasionally then you wouldn't be classed as a residential boater.

[NeilB]

Richardsons in Stalham have a laundry, toilets, showers and an onsite café. 

[bucket]

Welcome to the forum Natasha52.......very best of luck with your boat and moorings.

[floydraser]

4 hours ago, Natasha52 said:

Hi There. I've just brought a boat, currently hard standing on a yard in the broads. I am looking for somewhere to berth her  in Noforlk,where I can stay on her for long periods of time. I have a offshore base but want to be on her 12 days in every 14. I need electric hook up, water as a min. Laundry and toilets a bonus. Any ideas ?

Hi Natasha, welcome to the forum.

I wouldn't recommend Brundall Gardens Marina, try all the others first.

[Wussername]

Perhaps, just perhaps, this is an opportunity for the Broads Authority to make a contribution to this conversation. 

After all they take advantage of the tolls that the LA provide.

And yet they seem unable to offer a constructive criticism. 

It would seem that they are unable to contribute or are restricted.

There does need to be a dialogue which is sadly lacking.

[Troyboy]

On 01/03/2024 at 21:28, dnks34 said:

 

This is an interesting subject. Every time we pass a liveaboard moored on the river I think about the occupier and the story that got them into their situation. It's a shame some don't respect their surroundings the way they should. What really surprises me is that there aren't more people living in boats on the river. I know that there are logistical problems to overcome but with the price of housing being what it is and a very acceptable boat being relatively cheap in comparison to housing I do wonder why more don't do it. Saying this I'm not in favour personally.

[rightsaidfred]

1 hour ago, Troyboy said:

  What really surprises me is that there aren't more people living in boats on the river. I know that there are logistical problems to overcome but with the price of housing being what it is and a very acceptable boat being relatively cheap in comparison to housing I do wonder why more don't do it. Saying this I'm not in favour personally.

There are many hundreds if not thousands who have done just that on various rivers and canals throughout the country, it is more suited to urban waterways for access and amenities and moorings than the limitations of the rural Broads.

Fred

[dom]

2 hours ago, Troyboy said:

I do wonder why more don't do it.

The Broads Authority are completely hostile to any idea of liveaboards, opposing all planning applications made for residential moorings. As a result, you generally have to either continually cruise (not an especially attractive option on the Broads due to lack of moorings) or try and live under the radar on an unapproved mooring. Boatyards are well aware of the issue and tend to avoid letting moorings to liveaboards not already known to them.

As a general rule, if you're going to do it, you're far better off on the canal network where you can moor anywhere and only have to move every 2 weeks.

[Cheesey69]

Unfortunately, I can understand their point of view.

So you allow some livaboards, try to regulate it, some will challenge that line you laid down.

Space in authorised marinas will quickly go and the prices will rise until your not helping those you aimed for but you now have to deal with those who dont or cant stay in a zone or marina.

More and more resources will be channeled to feed the needs of the livaboards (sewage,water and space) and lets not forget that bank space is rare unlike the cannel network that has miles of tow paths 

Bits of bank that the owners don't mind or bank that is not easy to access will turn into a nightmare and trust me I've seen it where the motorway  crosses the cannel network, its ugly.

Unfortunately, I have experience of what happens, on land or water, when you give a little. Provide a little. The decent folk will rub along but there is always some. That is real life.

[Vaughan]

I appreciate what Fred, Dom and Cheesy say but there is one salient point :

All the river banks on the Broads are privately owned and there is no towpath, since they were originally made navigable for commercial traffic by sail power, not horses.  This alone, makes the Broads unique.  On all of the canal system,  both the waterway and its banks are wholly owned by the waterway authority.  So they have complete control over who moors there and under what conditions.  The Thames also has a public towpath along all of its length.

Marinas on the Broads already provide facilities for mooring customers : water, shore power, shore toilets and showers, car parking and waste disposal - even wifi - all included in the rent.  So living on a boat there (as opposed to spending a week on one's boat on the same mooring) does not put any extra strain on the facilities at all.

You think I keep going on about Jenners Basin?  Let's consider it for a moment :

An off river, quay headed basin, built with full planning permission exclusively for private moorings.  All the land around on an otherwise un-inhabited island.  Access by road for island parking over its own private road bridge. Drinking water from artesian well.  10 minutes by bus for those with jobs in Norwich.  Boatyard facilities such as diesel and pumpout easily available at the other end of the island, since all boats were tolled, insured and had a current BSS.  Yes, they did!

They weren't doing anyone any harm at all and were not even disturbing the badgers that live in the railway embankment, nor the foxes, nor the pheasants.  It is a lovely, tranquil and private place to live.  I know - I grew up there.

But their peace was shattered by the BA, whose then Chair decided they were "feral people" and set about 10 years of deliberate persecution until they were finally thrown out onto the river system and the landowner himself had to sell up to pay his legal fees.

And now we sit here, wondering what to do about "the live-aboard problem"?

@BroadsAuthority need to embrace the fact that their persecution of Jenners moorings has, sure enough, rebounded on them and allow flexibility in the use of residential moorings, which have been a tradition on the Broads for literally hundreds of years.

It's not a problem.  Unless they want to make it one.

 

 

[rightsaidfred]

4 hours ago, dom said:

As a general rule, if you're going to do it, you're far better off on the canal network where you can moor anywhere and only have to move every 2 weeks.

While I agree they are far more suitable the 2 week rule is a joke, regardless of what C&RT state on the canalised stretches of my local river most boats are in residence for months on end denying anglers etc access to the waterway, this is a national problem not just a Broads one.

While action is often taken against land based squatters and travellers little seems to be done to control liveaboards, I have no issue  with anyone who chooses to live on a boat but they should abide by the same rules that apply to everyone else.

Fred

[floydraser]

2 hours ago, rightsaidfred said:

While I agree they are far more suitable the 2 week rule is a joke, regardless of what C&RT state on the canalised stretches of my local river most boats are in residence for months on end denying anglers etc access to the waterway, this is a national problem not just a Broads one.

While action is often taken against land based squatters and travellers little seems to be done to control liveaboards, I have no issue  with anyone who chooses to live on a boat but they should abide by the same rules that apply to everyone else.

Fred

I guess that's why the C&RT are whacking a hefty toll on permanent cruisers to get them into marinas out of the way.

[rightsaidfred]

30 minutes ago, floydraser said:

I guess that's why the C&RT are whacking a hefty toll on permanent cruisers to get them into marinas out of the way.

Quite possibly but I would guess the extra toll is still cheaper than a marina berth, also while residential moorings are permitted and have existed for longer than I can remember there are nowhere near enough to accomodate the escalation in livaboards  in recent years.

Fred

[Cheesey69]

17 hours ago, rightsaidfred said:

Quite possibly but I would guess the extra toll is still cheaper than a marina berth, also while residential moorings are permitted and have existed for longer than I can remember there are nowhere near enough to accomodate the escalation in livaboards  in recent years.

Fred

That's the point right there. Who's to say how many is enough? when that cut off point is reached how are you going to stop more?

[rightsaidfred]

1 hour ago, Cheesey69 said:

That's the point right there. Who's to say how many is enough? when that cut off point is reached how are you going to stop more?

There are places in and around London where that has already been reached if not exceeded, I am familiar with one particular stretch in East London where for 3/4 mile or more the towpath is nose to tail with  boats of every description and in some cases double moored and there is nothing to stop others joining on.

While many feel aggrieved with the situation on the Broads it pales into insignificances with some areas.

Fred

[Vaughan]

15 hours ago, rightsaidfred said:

While many feel aggrieved with the situation on the Broads it pales into insignificances with some areas.

 

I have suggested above why the Broads situation may be entirely different, owing to bank ownership.

In my own memory, however, it "pales into insignificance" compared with the number of houseboats in the 50's and 60's.  Just because we wish to allow the current inhabitants the chance to find their own affordable arrangements doesn't mean there is going to be an increase out of control.

Unless, of course, the current slump in hire boat tourism leads to a follow-on slump in the price of second hand cruisers.  As it has always done before.

And in that case, the Broads will have a lot more to worry about than this!

[rightsaidfred]

5 hours ago, Vaughan said:

I have suggested above why the Broads situation may be entirely different, owing to bank ownership.

In my own memory, however, it "pales into insignificance" compared with the number of houseboats in the 50's and 60's.  Just because we wish to allow the current inhabitants the chance to find their own affordable arrangements doesn't mean there is going to be an increase out of control.

Unless, of course, the current slump in hire boat tourism leads to a follow-on slump in the price of second hand cruisers.  As it has always done before.

And in that case, the Broads will have a lot more to worry about than this!

The past is the past and times change and most things with it.

While everyone has the right to choose their own lifestyle they also have a responsability to respect the rights and property of everyone else, to much wild mooring has been lost because of the way  its been abused, sadly their is a significant minority who seem to think they are unaccountable and every one else suffers the consequences.

Fred

[Vaughan]

10 minutes ago, rightsaidfred said:

to much wild mooring has been lost because

I would suggest that too much wild mooring has been lost because the landowners of any simple piece of river bank have learned how to be greedy enough to expect people to pay for it.

If you are looking for something that has grown "out of control" - that is it. 

 

[rightsaidfred]

2 hours ago, Vaughan said:

I would suggest that too much wild mooring has been lost because the landowners of any simple piece of river bank have learned how to be greedy enough to expect people to pay for it.

If you are looking for something that has grown "out of control" - that is it. 

 

Every landowner is entitled to charge for the use of their property be it mooring, car park, carvan/camping site or whatever, I am referring to those lost with no mooring signs or obstructions because of littering, vandalism etc etc. or simply trespassing.

Fred

[Vaughan]

17 hours ago, rightsaidfred said:

I am referring to those lost with no mooring signs or obstructions because of littering, vandalism etc etc. or simply trespassing.

So what's your solution, Fred? Shall we just lock 'em all up and get them out of the way?

It has become obvious that the BA would like to. . . .

[Meantime]

I think the answer is that we need to stop discussing this issue in broad strokes. We need to understand that liveaboards come in various forms and each need to be treated respectfully and there is perhaps a different solution for each.

I think there are broadly three groups and the solutions for one, may not fit the other for whatever reason, but lumping all together risks alienating certain groups who don't all want to be tarred with the same brush.

1. Those who want a residential mooring, which I believe is where this thread started before it got derailed slightly. There should be marina berths for those who want to liveaboard full time. There should be the usual facilties as well as somewhere to receive post. This group want to pay their way, have a fully insured, licensed and BSS certified boat. We have several members here in this group who we frequently upset whenever this subject is raised. I agree with Vaughan (who saw that coming) that the BA should do what they can to facilitate such marina berths. However, I also feel that marinas need to be receptive as well. James had planning for 12 berths for a trial period I believe at the WRC. Then the marina was sold to Tingdene and it was their decision not to pursue extending the planning period and gave notice to their resident berth holders.

2. Those who don't want a home berth, or cannot afford a home berth, but still play by all the rules. The boat is insured, licensed and BSS certified. I'm not sure if we still have any members in this group, but by and large I think any that do join, end up leaving before too long as a result of these discussions. I think this is often a lifestyle choice to live like that, but do also accept that for some they might feel it is there only option, even if in reality there are other options out there. My own views are that an uplift to the license for boats without a home berth wouldn't be out of order in recognition of the extra pressure they put on the resources funded by the BA, in much the same way as hire boats pay more. Or as I've suggested before when you renew your license you get given 30 24hr mooring permits where you write the time and date you arrive at the mooring and its valid for one use, with extra bundles of 30 being purchased if you make more use of the BA moorings.

3. Those who don't want a home berth, don't insure, license of BSS toll their boat. There maybe some who simply cannot afford to insure, license and BSS their boat, but there are also others who just simply refuse to conform. This group are generally the ones that give all liveaboards a bad name, and they shouldn't. We should be clear about which group we are talking about when having these discussions.

In my opinion the BA should provide more help to those in group 1 to aid marinas to provide residential berths if they want to. Group 2 are pretty much self sufficient and play by the rules. It's those in group 3 that the BA probably need to concentrate some effort to ensure their boats are at least compliant for the system, and if finances dictate that they cannot be, then assistance from other external agencies should be sought. No one should be forced to live an an uninsured, unlicensed boat because they have no other viable alternative. Local authorities need to step in with support and emergency housing. 

As I write this, there is perhaps a fourth group, those that will not abide by the law, do not want to be helped and in fact go out of their way to generate mess and be abusive. Very few and far between, but they exist and perhaps do the most damage to the reputation of liveaboard boaters.

[dom]

18 minutes ago, Meantime said:

Or as I've suggested before when you renew your license you get given 30 24hr mooring permits where you write the time and date you arrive at the mooring and its valid for one use, with extra bundles of 30 being purchased if you make more use of the BA moorings.

That's a nice idea in theory, but there's not a hope in hell of BA being able to enforce it. There's at least one boat on a northern river mooring which has been in the same spot for months - and was on another one before that for a similar time. As it'd involve financial outlay, the chances of it working on an honesty basis would probably be fairly slim.

I suspect a couple of people on here who aren't liveaboards also moor for more than 30 days a year. Seems unfair to penalise them when they're some of the most responsible and considerate people on the river.

[Meantime]

A lot of local authorities in London have resident permit parking areas and usually you get given a number of visitor permits. When your visitor turns up, you simply circle the day, month and year and write a time on the permit. Any car parked in the zone without a residents, or visitors permit correctly filled in gets a parking ticket.

All it would need is a check when the BA rangers turn up to do their mooring post checks and if any boat hasn't got a correctly displayed ticket, they get a fine. It might rely on some honesty and is not perfect, but its a possible solution. Hire boats would be exempt in view of having paid a larger toll.

You also have to remember I placed that solution in the group that don't have a home berth, but who do play nicely and legally. The examples you gave probably belong to group 3, or in the case of the "one" boat, group 4. It was never suggested as a solution for those groups. If the boat isn't licensed it won't have been issued with any mooring permits and therefore shouldn't use any BA mooring. That is a perfect example of what I was saying, not lumping all groups or solutions together. There is never going to be a one size fits all solution to these problems.

[Gracie]

Excellent post MT.

I don't think Natasha wanted all this about liveaboards, just some help with a couple of questions. There's plenty of other threads on this subject. We really shouldn't hijack a newbies thread, probably frightening them half to death at the thought of staying on their boat in the process

Hi Natasha, a very warm welcome aboard  

Not sure about moorings but Richardson's have toilets, cafe, laundry and showers. There's also showers and toilets at Herbert Woods, an excellent cafe, pub and shop for lots of tat you neither wanted or needed but will buy anyway 

I hope you manage to get sorted

Grace x