Norfolk Marine Chandlers (Wroxham)

[mickfreakley]

I called at the above chandlers with a view of buying two new seats and swivels for my boat along with some rope and other bits and bobs. I picked up two seat swivel and noticed that they had two different prices on them, I pointed this out to the sales guy and suggested that he charge me the lesser price of the two (one priced at £11.49 the other £8.49) he said he wouldn't do that and would have to charge me the higher price for both. I suggested that as one was marked and on display at a lesser price he would have to charge me the lower price for that one, and I would be happy to pay the higher price for the other, I also pointed out that by law he would have to do so, at which point he said no I don't, I will withdraw it from sale and proceeded to try to remove the label from the lower priced. Can you guys clear up for me what the law actually is for this type of thing, obviously the difference in price was not worth arguing about but there is a principle at stake here. Both swivels were identical. 

[Lucky]

A quick search:-

 

A shop has advertised a product at £10. I have tried to buy it but they have said the product is actually £20 and they made a mistake. Do they have to sell me the product at the advertised price of £10?

This is a question best answered from both a civil and criminal point of view.

Civil law = your rights as a consumer against a business. If your civil rights have been breached you can take a business to civil court and one remedy is monetary damages. 

Criminal law = action that can be taken by a public body to prosecute a business for breaking the law. This usually ends in a fine or prison.

Civil

When you buy an item from a shop you and the shop are entering into a contract. Let take an example of buying a product from a supermarket.

You go into the shop and see a price label for £10. This is an invitation to treat. This is basically the shop saying we will take £10 for the item if you are willing to offer it.

When you take the item to the till you are making an offer. Which is basically saying 'I am willing to offer you £10 for this item'.

The £10 you are offering is consideration. This is you promising to pay them £10. The shops promise or consideration is the item they are going to give you for the £10. Most contracts have to have some form of consideration (although not all).

Finally, the shop can decide whether to accept or not. At this stage they can still refuse to sell you the product and they are under no obligation to. Only when they have accepted your offer is the contract complete and they are bound to sell you the product for £10.

Both parties must be willing to enter in a contract and there must be a meeting of the minds. This is where both sides are totally clear what the terms of the contract are. Clearly if the shop and customer disagree on the price there cannot be a meeting of the minds.

Some shops will sell you an item for the price they have marked it just for the sake of good customer service but they are not under a legal obligation to do so.

So, effectively there can be no contract until the shop accepts. 

From a practical point of view it is pretty easy to see this in practice in a real life shop as the contract usually complete when they take your money and give you the item.

Its a bit more difficult with online transactions because it is not always clear when a contract has been formed. In the past online retailers would accept as soon as you made a payment. However due to a few cases where shops lost money through pricing mistakes most shops now only accept your offer when they send the item out. This means even if you pay for an item, the shop has not actually accepted your offer even though they have taken your money - this means they can cancel the order. You should read the terms and conditions of the retailer to see what their stance is on pricing errors and when the contract is formed.

Finally, there may arise a situation where you have managed to pay for an item at a lower price and the shop has only realised after you have paid for the goods and taken the item (where the contract is complete for all intents and purposes). In this scenario the shop has sold you the item and you are not under an obligation to pay the difference, although you can do if you want to.

[Lucky]

For the sake of £3 I wouldn't of upset a customer though...... unless he started sprouting incorrect laws at me first !

[ExSurveyor]

Very well explained Lucky, when i read the op I was wondering how to cover the response simply, I can stop thinking now

[diesel falcon]

     Give the cheapest item to your mate, let him buy it, wait until a different shop assistant is on the till then buy the otherone!!! save 3 quids....simples!!

[Oddfellow]

The explanation is 100% accurate. The store did not have to sell the item to you and were within their right to withdraw it from sale.

 

What's probably most galling now for the store is that this remarkable attitude is being discussed in open forum for the sake of a few pounds.

[mickfreakley]

I had no problem with paying the higher price for both items, in fact when I took them to the till I fully expected to, but the manner in which the shop assistant dealt with it instantly got my back up. If he had said something along the lines of "I'm sorry that item has been wrongly priced, I would have said yeah, no worries, but he immediately started to rip off the price tag, said we get customers swapping labels all the time, and said  I can withdraw it from sale. He was certainly aware I was unhappy with his attitude towards this situation and said OK I will meet you half way. I said why would you do that if you are within your rights, he replied to appease you. It didn't work, in fact it had the opposite effect. he charged me £20.00 for the pair, the price of the two at the higher price would be £22.80 the total of the advertised price was £19.80 so for a 20p gain in the companies favour they have lost me as a customer. I also did not buy the two chairs at a cost of £120.00 I will now buy the exact same brand chairs online with free delivery for £19.00 less than I was prepared to pay Norfolk Marine for them. I have used this business for many years, the guy involved used to serve in the Potter Heigham shop before it closed, he is the most miserable sales guy I have ever met in my life, never a hello or how may I help you. Well I am afraid his attitude at last has cost the company a regular customer over many years. I'm sure some of you guys are aware of who I am referring to. Thanks to you guys for clearing up the legal situation

[BuffaloBill]

Would this guy be one of the brothers?

One is great and helps all he can and smiles, the other

looks as if he's swallowed a wasp and you are a d**n

nuisance for coming into the shop. 

[Dan]

The businesses are covered a bit as well as the consumer.  Imagine what fun some would have moving price labels if the fact it had the wrong price on meant they had to sell at that price

 

It could be very advantageous if shopping for a 'new' motor car and accidentally one of the first number or two 'fell' off, or genuine error had been made!

 

As has been said though, if the difference is small as in this case they may have just lost more than they have gained, looking at things less directly and to the "big picture", but I guess not all operate on that outlook

 

Dan

[mickfreakley]

Would this guy be one of the brothers?

One is great and helps all he can and smiles, the other

looks as if he's swallowed a wasp and you are a d**n

nuisance for coming into the shop. 

I think you have him spot on BB, his attitude towards his customers sucks, if he is that unhappy in his work he should retire.

[ranworthbreeze]

I tend to use Brian Ward's due to its location (near to our moorings) and have never had anything but excellent service and always with a smile, Tanya & Nick know their stock and are very helpful.

Having an account and a discount helps.

Regards

Alan

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

Correct me if i`m wrong, but i was under the impression that it`s the shop owners responsibility to ensure THEIR stock is PROPERLY PRICED, and that if a customer is actually handling the product at the point of sale, the advertised price is the legal price. As for refusing to sell it to a customer, the law has changed in recent years, and refusing to sell to a customer for any reason is now questionable?. I know that you can`t refuse to sell something to somebody because you don`t like them, or you disagree with something about them, so i wonder if this could have been argued at the time?. Me being me however, i would have told him to sell it at the marked price or stick it where the sun does`nt shine.

 

A polite attitude can overcome a lot of situations, whereas this guys attitude might just bring out the worst in some, me included.

 

 

Regards to all ......................... Neil.

[Lucky]

Correct me if i`m wrong, but i was under the impression that it`s the shop owners responsibility to ensure THEIR stock is PROPERLY PRICED, and that if a customer is actually handling the product at the point of sale, the advertised price is the legal price. 

Regards to all ......................... Neil.

 

Urban myth Neil....

[senator]

If it could be proved that the store intentionally advertised the product at a lower price and then charged a higher price at the till they would be guilty of false advertising and would be prosecuted under trades description laws.

 

This would be a criminal prosecution and would not make any difference to the customer. Any fines would be paid to the courts and used by government.

 

As has already been said, for the sake of a couple of quid, especially in a market that serves such a close community as the boating crowed , you would have to be pretty silly to fall out over it.

 

If you really want to be awkward then there is the right to claim n the civil courts for compensation. If you could show that you were enticed to the store by the offer of a false price, which was subsequently withdrawn, you could argue that you had incurred expense in traveling to the store, this expense was due to a direct attempt to mislead you and as such you would be entitled to recover these costs.. 

 

I am currently pursing a council through the small claims court, the monetary value is totally insignificant but they did pee me off, 

[Guest]

I think you have him spot on BB, his attitude towards his customers sucks, if he is that unhappy in his work he should retire.

 

This has cropped up on Broads forums before, so for the sake of balance, I'll give me two pennorth.

 

I've used most of the Norfolk chandleries and marine suppliers a great deal over the past 15 years, and Norfolk Marine perhaps the most, for convenience and stock range.

 

I find it strange that this chap gets accused of being a misery, he's always served me with no problems,

 

True, he doesn't smile much, but I'd rather be served by someone who just knows their stuff than a smiling idiot. 

 

Perhaps he just suffers fools badly, and they get plenty of those in there !  

[mickfreakley]

Well thank you for your assessment of me Stowager  

 

This is about a minor incident and nothing more, but the way he immediately tried to take off the label and then tell me he would remove it from sale really got my goat, he knows how I feel about him as I told him so. But as I say they have lost my custom, he is consistent I will give him that, he is a consistent miserable git, who I will try my hardest to avoid in the future, but if this is the companies policy for the way they treat their customers I am not too impressed.

[Guest]

Well thank you for your assessment of me Stowager

 

No assessment of you intended Mick.

 

My comment about him maybe suffering fools badly was just that, they do get a lot in there.

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

No assessment of you intended Mick.

 

My comment about him maybe suffering fools badly was just that, they do get a lot in there.

 

 

 

I would think it insane practice to assume CUSTOMERS to be fools Strow, they are their lifeblood, and taking an attitude like that will no doubt do their buisness no end of damage. No Mick has made his point very well and made his choice to shop elsewhere, the problem being, now this has reached public forum, it may deter many others from shopping there, especially after reading things like "he does`nt suffer FOOLS gladly".

 

 

Regards to all ........................... Neil.

[mickfreakley]

I am one to give good reports of businesses that serve me well, I think it only right to present the other side when the opposite is true. I have no issue with this company and as I say have shopped there on many occasions and the products I have purchased have been first rate. 

[quo vadis]

here here me too

[650xs]

after reading this with great excitment ,i now understand that the chanderlers in question and my self went to the same diplomatac,customer service and p r school such as my self .....!!!!!!!

 

i knew i saw his face from some where ..............................

 

 

stick it to ooommmm...........................!!!!!

 

norfolk robbers always willing to help .........................!!!!

 

 

well yer got to laugh..............................

[Guest]

I would think it insane practice to assume CUSTOMERS to be fools Strow, they are their lifeblood, and taking an attitude like that will no doubt do their buisness no end of damage. No Mick has made his point very well and made his choice to shop elsewhere, the problem being, now this has reached public forum, it may deter many others from shopping there, especially after reading things like "he does`nt suffer FOOLS gladly".

 

 

 

Yes, it would indeed be a big mistake to automatically assume all customers to be fools Neil.

 

Not quite what I said though. 

 

My impression of him whenever I've been in there is always of someone who knows the stock and about boats. 

 

I prefer that to the often fixed smile from sales people that often have a poor knowledge of their field and advise customers  on the wrong products.

 

My post was actually an attempt to try to balance the impression already given on this thread, that "may deter many others from shopping there".

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

Strow,   it`s a bit naughty mis quoting people, especially as the truth is in black and white in your box quote of me?.

 

Read it again, and it`s plain to see in UPPER CASE letters that i said "CUSTOMERS", and NOT "all customers" as you refer in your post above.

 

 

However, i know what you mean regarding product and stock knowledge, and i agree with you, but that does`nt give the rite to be off hand in any way. If you wish to run a buisness serving the public, you MUST respect the very public that in fact are keeping your buisness alive, and by the word respect, i don`t mean suck up to, or be patronising.

 

I remeber a couple of years ago, i wanted to buy some archery gear, so had to drive to Quicks in Waterlooville just north of Portsmouth. I`m not sure of the exact milage, but it was somewhere in the region of a 100 mile round trip, 2 hours of driving, and about £15ish in petrol. The guy that served me was very off hand, and every time i asked him to get something from out the back, he tutted, and when i asked him to get something from an open shelf on the public floor because i`d forgotten my reading glasses, he muttered "oh christ".

 

By this time, i had the idea of waiting until he`d rung it all up and was going to tell him to stick it where the sun does`nt shine, but i then thought it would be a waste of a long drive and petrol, so i bit my tongue and thought never again. When paying the bill, he asked our adress, and then asked which club i shoot with, which sparked off a short conversation, so i payed the bill, and left. The next time i went in, he served me again, and had a friendly chat about local traffic problems in our area, as it turned out he only lived up the road from us.

 

The thread of this is that because of his earlier attitude, they nearly lost not only a sale, but a regular customer. One thing i was told a long time ago, which i still believe to this day is politeness and a smile costs nothing, but can buy an awful lot.

 

 

Regards to all ........................... Neil.

[mbird]

Personally I have had pretty good service from Norfolk Marine over the years, as long as you turn a blind eye to the grumpy attitude of one or two members of staff, and even they can be approachable on occasion.

 

In this instance I would write a letter to the owner explaining the situation and see if that can go someway to a reconciliation?

[Guest]

Strow,   it`s a bit naughty mis quoting people, especially as the truth is in black and white in your box quote of me?.

 

Read it again, and it`s plain to see in UPPER CASE letters that i said "CUSTOMERS", and NOT "all customers" as you refer in your post above........

 

 

So how could I have  "been naughty" in mis quoting you then Neil, if the box contained exactly what you'd written  ?

 

I just naturally interpreted the word "Customers" as meaning all, since it wasn't qualified with the word "some".

 

But not worth arguing about really.