Boat Buddy

[Happy]

 Hi, help please.  Have any of you got any feedback on Boat Buddy please.

Having had boats on and off on the Broads for around 30 years and living about 170

miles away, we don't use the boat as much as we should and I think its a crime to

leave her moored up rather than being used.  This scheme seems quite sensible but

as I see it could be open to many problems!  Any info please?  Regards Alan 

[Gracie]

Hi Alan

 

Never heard of Boat Buddy before, by the title I can imagine what it's about. Is it just between friends or would you allow strangers to use your pride and joy?

 

Grace

[Hockham Admiral]

I've just read it all up, Happy, and the one thing I'd need to think about would be how well I knew the person and their abilities with whatever of the two scemes you decided on.

 

Otherwise it seems a fair idea.

[Happy]

Hi Gracie.  Only people with proven boat handling

and maintenance skills would be invited!! Regards Alan

ps Its worth Googling 'Boat Buddys' to read what they are all about

[Gracie]

Just googled Boat Buddys, unless I have missed something there seems little mention of Insurance, what if an accident occurs involving another boat or personal injury to the boat buddy, just a thought.

 

Grace

[ranworthbreeze]

Hello Alan,

My advice is to set up a proper syndicate with terms conditions and contracts that are duly signed outlinning what is expected by all parties. This will help with regards to your Broads Toll & Registration and boat insurance.

If you need any advice by all means feel free to contact me directly for any advice on the subject.

Regards

Alan

[Happy]

Gracie.  I think you have missed the point!  Its not a

case of just letting anybody take over the boat for a

'jolly'.  After an initial meeting to see how both parties

get on, a simple contract is drawn up to cover both

parties and at that time the appropriate names etc

will be added to the boats insurance. Simples! 

With Regards Alan 

[Gracie]

Not simple enough for me it would seem.

 

Grace

[Happy]

Hi Ranworth Breeze.  Thanks for your input.  Yes I agree this needs to be looked at in a proffessional manner.  If I do decide to go ahead will take you up on your offer, Thank you.  At the moment there are two guys on the listing that seem to be ideal-will keep you posted. Regards Alan. 

[SueH]

Hello

 

I tend to agree with Alan from Ranworth Breeze, it needs to be formalised and each person being aware of their responsibilities etc.

 

In the gliding world we had a similar thing where people had what was called an 'insurance share' where they were allowed to fly the aircraft but had to pay a proportion of their insurance/running costs - ie if there were two of them flying then they would each pay half of everything.   However they had no capital tied up in the aircraft.

 

SueH

[Mowjo]

Grace! you havn't missed the point, in fact you have a very valid point about Insurance, some company's will need separate insurance for both party's other will just stick a premium on, and some it won't affect at all, it will all depend on if the Insurance company look on it as hiring the boat out even though it's sharing cost, they can be really picky if any money exchanges hands, so it's something that's needs looking into before sharing, we had a hell of a job with my daughters boat because we actually own it, she wanted the insurance in her name so she rang loads of marine insurers, most told her they wanted a survey, even though we own it, and as soon as she told them we owned it, things got very complicated, silly stuff like as we own the boat how often would we use it, it just went on and on, I rang my insurance company, Edward Williams, told them the situation and they advised me to insure the boat in our name, when I told them it was our boat on paper only, they said it doesn't matter, because anyone is allowed to use the boat with our permission as long as no money changes hands, I went with Williams as I've been with them for years, very good, no surveys, £160 a year including legal protection, and you can pay it in three instalments if you want, I'd also check with the BA about boat sharing with all the new changes the river tax may be different as well,,,,,

 

Frank,,,, 

[ranworthbreeze]

Hello Frank,

 

When we ditched are management company in 2012 and I contacted the Broads Authority to change the  boats registation from commercial to private I had to prove that we had a consitution in place and send them copies of our owners contract so we allowed to change it.

 

After the effects of the Challenger problem effecting a number of Broads Syndicates the Broads Authority were very sympathetic with syndicate enquiries.

 

Although the registratration  is sent to a named person it can be named under two people representing a group or syndicate. We have ours registered in the names of our trustees.

 

With regards to our marine insurance we inform our insurance company with the names of the owners at the start of each season.

 

Our contract states that an owner needs to be on board if the boat in use.

 

Regards

Alan

[Gracie]

Hi Frank

 

Thank you for that, I thought there may be an issue with Insurance with this type of thing and only asked the question to make conversation, I certainly would not expect a responsible boat owner to let someone take their Boat for a 'jolly'

 

Grace

[Mowjo]

Your welcome Grace!  Happy! I found this about Boat Buddys, http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?336223-Boat-Buddies-Illegal-Charters-or-not, it's worth a read as there are a few concerned about insurance, I'm not trying to put you off in anyway, but I'd hate for you to have a so called boat buddy damage your boat or even worse and you find your insurance company won't pay out, we all know that if they can find a way to not pay out they will,,,

 

Frank,,,,  

[C.Ricko]

If the boat is for 'Hire or reward' then it pays the Tax multiplier, that includes things like raffle prizes, a trip on the boat for painting the owners kitchen, fishing trips etc.

[Mowjo]

Hi Alan! I knew you were the man for the job,,

 

Clive! you have pointed out just what I was trying to explain, if what you say is the case, then I presume legally you would need hirers insurance as well, with boat share you are all part owners of the boat so it doesn't come into the realms of hire or reward, with boat Buddy it seems you stay the owner, but you let them share your boat in return for helping maintain it or paying towards the expenses of running it, I know if someone has your permission they can usually use your boat, but my concern is that the so called buddy could actually damage or sink your boat and walk away and there's nothing you could do about  it, if I were Happy, I'd certainly contact the BA and my insurers to find out more, in principle the boat buddy thing seems like a good idea, but if it went wrong you could be opening a legal can of worms,,,

 

Happy! sorry if I'm negative on this one, but I was always taught that if something seems too good to be true, it usually is,

 

Frank,,,   

[Guest]

 

Hi, help please.  Have any of you got any feedback on Boat Buddy please.

 

There's actually quite a bit about "Boat Buddy" on the web, especially when trying slight variations on the name, eg "BoatBuddy", "Boat Buddies" etc,,

 

The forum discussion that Frank found on YBW shows a very extensive and somewhat acrimonious discussion about the legality and insurance issues, with what appears to be a lot of knowledgeable input from a wide range of people feeling that the scheme is risky.

 

Another thread on YBW forums has a fairly succinct summary:

 

"Similar schemes have been discussed on this and other forums. iirc, the usual consensus is that the approach is too close to chartering and therefore would need a coded boat and qualified skipper. If you take a friend out for the day or even lend your boat to a friend then that is OK. If your friend offers to cover some of the expenses for the trip, that should be OK too. But for a stranger to do that or for someone to pay above the odds in return for trips starts to cross a line."

 

from http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?380006-BoatBuddys-Anybody-have-any-experiance-of-this-scheme

 

 

When you read through the Boat Buddies "wanted" page on the site, so many of the adverts contain a similar pattern of grammar and spelling mistakes, almost as though they were written by the same person, even though they're for a wide range of boats, in a wide range of locations....  

[Happy]

 Thank you all for your replies to this.  Seemed like a good idea at the time!  I now think I should have spent the £25 joining fee in the pub and not bothered!  On reflection I am NOT going to get involved.  I have however arranged for four of us

to go to the boat next Thursday and Friday and get her sorted, as long as the pub across the river doesn't distract us too much. Regards Alan. 

[Guest]

...... I now think I should have spent the £25 joining fee in the pub and not bothered!.....

 

Maybe I'm being too cynical Alan, but given that sort of fee, I still can't help thinking that the bulk of the adverts are "window dressing".....

[MauriceMynah]

Strow! You? Cynical??  Never let it be said!

Mind you, I agree with your assessment about it possibly being "Window dressing".

[Guest]

Strow! You? Cynical??  Never let it be said!

Mind you, I agree with your assessment about it possibly being "Window dressing".

 

 

Cynical ?  Moi ? 

[Mowjo]

Thanks Strow! you confirmed my thoughts on it, I found the Buddy site contradicting in places, I read through all the reply's on the YWB site but not knowing if the same Regs applied to the Broads about chartering, I didn't want to put anything about it here, I just wanted to stir it up enough so that someone else would take a read and give their opinion, it seems that it's a very grey area about insurance, charter or not and how the term friend is interpreted, the scheme looks quite good, but if someone had a personal accident, damaged another boat or damaged your boat, the owner wouldn't have a leg to stand on,

 

Frank,,,

[Happy]

 To add to my original post I think I can confirm the views of Strowager etc.

Before I decided to give up on this idea I did e mail 2 people off the Boat Buddy

site who appeared to be ideal candidates and guess what-neither have replied!

 Really should have spent the money in the pub!!  Regards Alan 

[Mowjo]

Unfortunately Alan you seem to be in the situation that makes people give up boating,  I kind of had the same thing when we owned a Café, the boat sitting in the Marina, paying out for it and no time to use it, we could only manage one weeks holiday a year so we worked out it was cheaper to hire for the week and sold the boat, and we were lucky because we only live 35 minutes from the marina so didn't have all that expense of fuel, the next year someone made us an offer on the café that was to good to turn down so we sold it, bought another boat and retired, we are running out of money fast so I reckon we have another three or four years before we give up, but I'll live on pot noodles before I give the boat up, there must be a legal way to do what you want to do regarding sharing that doesn't fall fowl of the regs and insurance that's safer to do than boat buddy and is legal, I'll have an idea that I might run past Boss Alan as he knows all about boat sharing,,

 

Frank,,,,

[Guest]

........there must be a legal way to do what you want to do regarding sharing that doesn't fall fowl of the regs and insurance that's safer to do than boat buddy and is legal......

 

 

Yes, as you say, there must be a legal way for more than one owner to share the running costs of a privately owned boat.

 

Without getting into the complex issues of full-blown syndicate ownership that, as you say, RanworthBreeze must be totally conversant with, there has to be a simpler halfway house.

 

The trick is in finding the "like minded" person and being able to judge whether they can be trusted to be considerate and not abuse the boat or the cost sharing.  If they are already a long term acquaintance then their character will already be known to you, as your would be to them.